When it gets cold and dreary outside it’s little things inside to give promise of spring.
This little seedling has made branches/leaflets at EVERY single node so far, even at the cotyledons… and it still has a strong leader.
(I just thought it was cute)- BTW I just learned not to use quotations in the subject. Sorry.
What’s it mom & dad?
LOL, I KNEW someone would ask (after all this is a hybridization forum). I’m not prepared to say right yet (I don’t want to jinx it or be wrong). I DO have some suspicions (the pot WAS labeled- but there’s a long story behind that); after the seedling grows I would be better prepared/more comfortable in giving a more definitive answer to that question. If I’m right, the species mom (x modern rose dad) has “well branched” in the helpmefind description (and that’s all I’m going to say). Perhaps I’m wrong- we will see.
Oh now you have me REALLY intrigued!
I had seedlings that looked just like that a few years ago. They were from some 3K20 OP seeds I got from David. 3K20 is a tetraploid OP seedling of Max Graff. Most of the seedlings were low growing and spreading, but a few were very short and well branched just like yours. When I get home from work I can post a few pictures of them.
I’m just now starting to pay attention to growth habit being as part of the overall package of a rose. With something like this I wonder if it might be a bramble/briar. I kept at least one seedling this past year for the growth habit alone (it didn’t really have anything else to offer).
I’ve had at least one question I’ve been mulling about in my mind about this. If the modern upright “hybrid tea” form was something that had to be selected for (which started with the Hybrid Perpetuals) why is it a dominate trait (for the most part) now?
I did say I was starting to pay attention to this. These are the three I had this year that I thought had good growth habit.
climbing Knockout seedling
Carefree Beauty seedling. I absolutely did not pay attention to this seedling until recently and I almost let it die due to drought- then I decided it was worth saving because of how it branched.
and this is a small hybrid musk/multiflora derived shrub that I can’t wait to see first bloom on.
Actually I haven’t seen blooms on any of the above yet. As you can see (we just had a flash flood) and I prefer having multiple canes at the base and also I love seeing that natural own root effect- which leads me to what my other question was. If you have a rose which is top heavy (but a one cane wonder at the bottom); it seems that grafting, so that you have a base of four or five canes, would significantly alter the form of the original plant giving a more full bush.
All of my successful canina hybrids (ie. “keepers”) do that at the base. I think that thinking about how a rose could be easily and cleanly produced as a speciment itself and an fractal for further asexual reproduction is a good way to think in terms of hybridizing good plants. Not only should we want a good end product but we should also want a rose which could be easily propagated. A rose that does not branch well often defeats both end goals.
A lot of this stems from the fact that I’ve been trying to define, for me, what the “perfect” rose architecture would be. Obviously landscape shrub. I can give two nice examples, the random architecture of Carefree Beauty or the multiple upright canes of Belinda’s Dream. I think that’s why I became interested in that CB seedling above. It’s an intermediate between upright and shrub (like Belinda’s Dream). On the side, I thought it was an interesting curiosity to get upright hybrid multifloras from Prosperity. I think eventually I want to incorporate running or suckering. I like how rugosa does that (although I don’t like how the older plants will eventually die off). I’ve been looking at some of the older varieties (like Rose de Rescht) as something to gain this trait.
Here is a photo of the seedling I had a few years ago. I’m not sure what the stucture of this seedling turned out to be like, I didn’t keep track of it and I eventually culled it.
It’s an interesting seedling. Can’t deside if it looks kordesii or not.
or decide.
I guess this is as good a place as any to dump a pic of one of the last (seedling) blooms of the year. This is the fourth bloom on the yellow that I like so much from this year- I have no clue as to parents.
Very pretty. Is it fragrant?
You have a good eye Jon. While it
The foliage seems specific for a yellow though. It should be easy to ID the parents, maybe?
Paul, I have sometimes wondered if you can get normal plants from a seedling that is genetically confused (in the F2). Anyone?
“It should be easy to ID the parents, maybe”
You would think. I have racked my brains trying to match it with what I have. Maybe some of the characteristics may match- but as a whole, nothing I have matches.
It is fragrant. It was a late germinator- came up in the middle of summer and grew better and stronger than any yellow I have ever grown (especially as a first year seedling). Has grown multiple 4’ canes (hasn’t shown a true climbing habit yet though). It’s starting to get some spots now (that it’s cold and rainy) but during the summer it was disease free- still better than most. It has smallish flowers so maybe it’s something from a mini (I bought quite a few yellow mini’s last year from noreast- that would also make sense why I didn’t label it as well). Very double (more double than any other yellow I have); I’ll count here in a day or so. Straight prickers- I think that’s what’s throwing me off the most. I still think it might have KO (or derivative) in it somewhere as the dad- that would explain the vigor and the glossiness to the foliage and the sepals.
I can’t wait to see spring flush to see if it’s going to be a prolific bloomer or not, also I’m curious to see if it will bloom in clusters. If nothing else I’m just happy to have a yellow that will be OK to use for further breeding (yellows in my area do NOT do well at all). I just bought Sunny Knockout this year (I held out until one was on sale for $5), it has spots on it now as well but that’s probably what I’m going to try crossing it with next.
(what can I say, I just like pictures)
Hi Jon,
Did you get any plants of ‘First Impression’ from Nor’East? It has glossy foliage and is reasonably clean. It’s also a good pollen parent.
Jim Sproul
It probably would have been the seed parent- thus the ‘miscellaneous’ seed category. I bought (maybe six or seven) yellows, but not First Impression. I remember ‘My Sunshine’ making seed and the foliage almost looks like something from Sunsprite. I also thought maybe Sunny Day (I remember maybe two seed from it).
I don’t think you will get much “double-ness” using KO as the dad. Which leaves KO x Flirtatious… and I did use it.
(it did show some subtle striping in the first flowers btw)
Now I have a plant from this year which should be Flirtatious x (Knockout x Flirtatious)
It doesn’t show as much disease resistance as I would hope (although still fairly decent). But it is double and has cherry edging. I think there is some climbing genes in with the stripes in Flirtatious…
Jon, very nice pictures, I love the colors of the last two.
No, I don’t think that a seedling that is stunted when it’s small will ever turn out to be a normal plant. Others have mentioned that to me and I’ve learned that from my own exeriance. The only exception to that rule that I’ve seen are seedlings with a high percentage of R.arkansana in them. R.arkansana seedlings are very slow growing the first two years and don’t really take off until the third year, probably because they develop a strong root system before they develop the top. I found some small seedlings growing among some of my roses this spring and I transpalnted them in with this years seedlings. Except for one, they all turned out to be R.arkansana seedlings and none of these grew to be more than 6" tall with very spindly stems. If I keep them I’m sure they would turn into normal sized R.arkansana plants.