‘Plaisanterie’ is a possibility, but again, it is pretty much a pink with a soft (and fast fading) yellow overlay. Good color is unlikely to come from it but I may have a go anyway, thanks for the suggestion.
Paul
Paul, I wondered why you didn
Roger said: "Yellow diploids: Mutabilis (China) made some yellows that where surprisingly good, up to medium yellow. I have little information on fading yet. Safrano (tea), and Isabella Sprunt (a light yellow Safrano sport) where disappointing, although some yellows resulted. I was never able to get enough pollen from Mar
Paul, good for you on the Mar
Im running out of ideas, Paul – mainly because Ive run into this same problem more than once (re: diploid: strong colors).
I did wonder about Bishop Darlington. It’s apricot, maybe diploid and fragrant. However, it does fade. shrug
This scenario is pretty much why I decided that Danae x Leonie Lamesch and Trier x Rabble Rouser were good ideas to try. The latter will obviously most likely be triploid, and maybe climbing since RR can produce climbers and my personal cultivar already sported climbing branches. However, I can always work in either direction re: ploidy later on, too.
Its amazing once you start researching it: there are so few well pigmented diploids! I need to test some of my Rugosa hybrids to determine their ploidy. Perhaps some of the darker colored ones will provide what I need.
‘Trier’ does produce some very richly colored offspring if you mate it with the right thing. I got one seedling (sibling to ‘Jeri Jennings’) that was a brilliant orange-scarlet!
Thanks for the suggestions.
Paul
Did you consider Miss Lowe/Sanguinea it is a diploid strong red as recurent as any.
Only fault is that it has very big seeds I have difficulty to germinate.
Hi Pierre,
No, I didn’t think of it simply because I don’t have it. I do have 'Slater’s Crimson China though, and I might give that a go. I only want a pollen parent at this time, since I am working on a particular seed parent.
Thanks!
Paul
I have it. It is a wonderful rose in its own right, but a pretty crappy seed parent. The hips usually, unless theyre OP, fall right off. It seems to dislike setting hips when it is normal here (Western Oregon is a temperate, humid climate, for the most part). It is only in August, when it gets blazing hot and dry, that it seems to want to set OP hips on its very own. The other problem is, like you mentioned, is that it loves to set on HUGE seed per hip. I dont have the patience for that, lol.
I was sad of the above cause I REALLY felt that Sanguinea x Rosa roxburghii normalis was a stellar idea to try. Meh, oh well.
However! It does work as a pollen parent. I got a lot of seeds from Baby Faurax x Sanguinea this year. Let’s hope they germinate 
Paul, if you remind me (I tend to get scattered…) in the spring/summer, I can ship some pollen down the I-5 for you, lol. too bad all of my friends already graduated from OSU or I could send it with them haha.
What about Golden Salmon?
Paul, I’ll send you pollen of anything I have, but Robin Hood isn’t one of the roses I grow. I’m not much for reds, a few few climbers, and everything else is a polyantha. My plant list, more or less, is linked.
I have Lady Reading, apparently diploid because it’s a sport of Ellen Poulsen (if the plant is properly ID’d).
I also have Verdun, another rose red poly, supposedly diploid.
I can also offer pollen of a wild card, the rose in commerce as ‘Bengal Fire.’ I don’t know if it’s Sanguinea, but it’s the color is more crimson than the scarlet of the Sanguinea I’ve seen. It is supposed to grow very large, to the size of Mutabilis. The nicest thing is that, in my garden, Bengal Fire doesn’t suffer from the leaf spot that Mutabilis has. My plant is still small, or I’d have a shot.
Hi Paul,
I have Robin Hood and could send you some pollen. Being I’m in Minnesota, it starts blooming mid to late June. If that time frame works for you let me know. It does get some black spot for me, so it’s not disease free, but it’s pretty healthy.
I also have small plants of Marjorie Fair and Candy Oh!Vivid Red. I don’t know how much pollen I will be able to get from them this year because they are so small. But I could send some if I get any.
Paul
Cass, I believe Sanguinea and Begal Fire are the same plant. The tag on my had both names. Also, my full grown plant matches your description. It is quite the beefy, healthy china, lol.
Which reminds me, I should cross it with Jens Munk, maybe…
I’m not sure what results you might get from it, but I’ll third the recommendation to at least try ‘Bengal Fire’ (which may be the same as ‘Sanguinea’, but it’s hard to be certain if it matches those overseas). It seems to be immune to disease here in the hot, humid, blackspot-happy mid-Atlantic climate and puts Knockout to shame in terms of beautiful foliage AND growth - and we’re talking interior leaves on the plant, or those hopelessly shaded and crowded or lying directly on the ground, unaffected by any rose malady. Granted, its red is not an orangey one, but color depth and saturation it does have. It is a landscape specimen worthy of any landscape.
Back to the polyantha/China line of thought, what about ’
What I love about my Sanguinea/Bengal Fire is that it is phototropic.
The blooms in spring or late fall, when the weather is that lovely tinge of overcast grey here (you know what Im talking about if you’ve been to the Pacific Northwest), the blooms on it are very dark pink. When the sun comes back out, then deeper to red tones. It is fascinating!
And yeah, it does put both Knockout and Home Run to shame here. The only advantage that Home Run has over it here is the more modern size. However, all three seem equally hardy here, which I find unusual for any china or tea. The only specific negative china cultural trait that I have found with it is is loathe to be winter pruned. So, I tip prune or take out entire branches instead – a tactic I also use for Leonie Lamesch, Golden Wings and Selfridges (quite the disparity lol).
Are the chinensis/Tea Francis Dubreuil & Louis XIV (both very deep reds) diploids?
The ‘Frances Dubreuil’ of commerce is thought to actually be Dot’s ‘Barcelona’, likely tetraploid.
‘Louis XIV’ is classified as a Tea by growth habit only. As a seedling of ‘General Jacqueminot’ it is HP by pedigree and likely tetraploid.
I guess Ruby Meidiland is diploid… would be good for BS resistance.
strike that. Guess it’s tri.