Recommended Diploids?

I think names got confused. I am sure that David means Lavender Meidiland, the landscape shrub rose, and not Lavender Meillandina, a miniature that is also known as Lavender Sunblaze.

Here is MEIbivers, known as Lavender Meidiland in the USA:

Link: www.helpmefind.com/plant/pl.php?n=74383

Purple Imp might get you some reds? Who knows…

maybe Purple Popcorn, too.

HMF says Perle d’or is diploid and one of its descendants (Emile Potin) is listed as being golden yellow that was made by crossing Perle d’Or with the soft pink ‘Marie Pavic’. I don’t know what kind of pollen it makes.

My count agrees with Perle d’Or being diploid.

Jadae, I’m convinced now the plant the MN Landscape Arboretum has is not the real Lamonie Lamesch.

Yes, the Lavender Meidiland is the new landscape shrub. Hopefully its pedigree will be published sometime. It is quite pretty. It is floriferous and nice how open, yet strong the stems are of the inflorescences holding the blooms in a way that keeps them nicely spaced and held above the foliage. The foliage has a little bit of glossiness. It has more of a rounded, mounded form typical of some of the R. multiflora based polyanthas rather than the the more spreading habit of a heavily R. wichurana based polyantha/groundcover.

I really like polyantha based roses like ‘Pink Gnome’ that combine the glossy foliage of R. wichurana, but has a more compact, mounded habit like some of the R. multiflora based polys. I enjoy the spreading polys/groundcovers, but they can look unruly sometimes with their very variable growth patterns and canes of all different lengths before they start blooming. ‘Pink Gnome’ is diploid and very fertile, but you are hoping for something that isn’t pink. It is very blackspot resistant though, but does contract mildew easily and tends to pass that along.

Sincerely,

David

Thanks David,

Perhaps I should look to ‘Perle d’Or’ then. I also have a plant given to me as ‘Leonie Lamesch’ which appears to conform to descriptions and photos of the cultivar, but other have stated that it doesn’t pass on much in the way of color, which will undoubtedly be more of an issue when mated with 0-47-19, which LOVES to make pale pinks and whites. I’d have to pass on ‘Pink Gnome’ for the same reason, I’m afraid. ‘Slater’s Crimson’ is looking more and more like a possibility after all, and ‘Gloire de Rosomanes’ as well, both Triploids I believe.

David, I should send you root tips of “Magseed” to see what its ploidy is. I suspect its a Tetraploid, but it would be good to know for sure. Its an easy breeder with other Tetraploids, I found.

Paul

Hi Paul,

How about the triploid ‘Golden Angel’ for yellow using it as a female? It gives a good number of diploids crossed with diploids. I crossed some pink diploid polyanthas onto it and got a little more than half diploids. They tended to be a bit washed out in color though and not too fertile, but hopefully there can be a link to some good exceptions with the diploids you have in mind.

I’ll be glad to do some root tip squashes for you.

Take Care,

David

Hi David,

I have grown tired of trying to work with ‘Golden Angel’, since it has produced very few seedlings in five years that I consider having any merits at all. Rarely do any have good coloring. Kim recommended it highly but I have been quite disappointed with the results, but maybe I should give it a try. There is another obstacle here: 0-47-19 has some form of RMV; not a particularly intense strain, as it rarely manifests itself with leaf markings and has apparently no effect on its vigor, but I am hesitant to put its pollen on any of my female breeders. I have three plants of ‘Golden Angel’ I work with and I could assign one as being a target for RMV suspect pollen ONLY for all future work. (The reality is that I have already exposed it to RMV infected pollen, since so many older cultivars can be assumed to carry one or more viruses. shrugs)

Yes, maybe I’ll do that: put 0-47-19 pollen on ‘Golden Angel’ and test for Diploids. David, I have two rather nice seedlings from '06 that came from ‘Golden Angel’ X ‘Out of Yesteryear’ which are decent yellows and one of which has exceptional vigor. Both are still in containers so it will be easy to obtain root tips. Do you want to look at these and see what their ploidy is? The larger, more vigorous one has already shown that it is capable of setting seed, so it might be very useful in breeding if it turned out to be Diploid.

Have you had any interesting results using that Diploid Poly you sent me two years ago? Does it pass on good coloring?

Thanks,

Paul

PS: what are the chances that ‘E. Veyrat Hermanos’ is a Diploid? I have it and have considered it for breeding. It has beautiful blooms, and great vigor, but it needs the influence of something that repeats more generously.

Paul

Paul, I have done limited crosses with Leonie Lamesch. Those I have done have been with cultivars containing a considerable amount of species white. LL may give brighter colors. I did one more mainstream cross last season as an experiment and will know more when the seedling flowers this Spring.

Perle D’or is always a good bet but again the color so far in offspring has been muted.

A while back, David posted a question about using Mutabilis to breed yellow diploids. I responded that I had obtained a light, fading yellow seedling with The Gift, which is a white poly. I now have some results of the crosses I planned to make at that time:

Yellow diploids: Mutabilis (China) made some yellows that where surprisingly good, up to medium yellow. I have little information on fading yet. Safrano (tea), and Isabella Sprunt (a light yellow Safrano sport) where disappointing, although some yellows resulted. I was never able to get enough pollen from Mar

RE: ‘Golden Glow’; I am amazed that anyone EVER got good yellows out of this plant. I gave up using it after the 2006 crop because I never got any decent colors. All I got were whites and some insipid, fast fading pale yellows of no particular merit. Ugh. ‘Abraham Darby’ is an order of magnitude more useful as a parent of yellows, as are numerous other modern shrubs.

The idea of 0-47-19 X ‘Mutabilis’ is intriguing, but my records show that 0-47-19 has been very reluctant to take pollen from anything with the Tea/China background. In fact, I tried for two years to use ‘Mutabilis’ as a pollen parent and never got a single seed from any crosses. I’m hesitant to go back to ‘Mutabilis’ for fear of wasting my time. We’ll see.

Paul

PS to Roger: I have sent you an email.

You may have already thought about these and they might not be what you

Of the diploids from the Pimpinellifoliae section, Canary Bird, Golden Chersonese and R.ecae would have the deepest yellows.

Tempting ideas, Paul, but since 0-47-19 has only one gene for remontancy, then I would end up with a group of seedlings, many of which had no remontancy genes at all, so selecting for remontancy in future generations would be problematic, and I really don’t want to be in a position where that became an obstacle. What I need to do is select a repeat blooming seedling from a population of open pollinated seedlings of 0-47-19 to be a parent for work like that, I think.

Are the Teas and climbing Teas generally diploid, do we know? I recognize that many of them are recorded as Diploid, but perhaps not all?

Paul

You could start with a repeat blooming seedling of 0-47-19 x any of the above and get 100% of the offspring with one remontancy gene. A cross of 0-47-19 x any of the above would get you 50% with one remontancy gene and 50% without any. 25% of the selfed offspring of a seedling with one remontancy gene would have two remontancy genes. So it could be done in two generations in either case.

These Teas have been reported to be triploid:

Belle Portugaise, Lady Hillingdon, Climbing Lady Hillingdon, Homere, Noella Nabonnand and Papa Gontier.

There maybe others as well.

“You could start with a repeat blooming seedling of 0-47-19 x any of the above and get 100% of the offspring with one remontancy gene.”

True. I also have a group of about 35 plants of 0-47-19 X ‘Trier’ which should, in principle, all be diploids as both parents are confirmed diploids, and maybe these would be good choices to move forward with.

Paul

Yes, that would be another way to go, any of these directions would be just as valid as the other. That

Paul, Robin Hood throws some colorful seedlings.

People mentioning Mutabilis…what about it’s cross with Trier, Plaisanterie? HMF says it’s diploid.

Cass,

Perhaps I can beg some ‘Robin Hood’ pollen from you this Spring? :slight_smile:

By the way Cass, that plant of ‘Red Wand’ you sent me a few years ago has turned out to be one of the most disease free shrubs I grow. It NEVER gets Blackspot or Mildew or Rust. And so, I have decided to start working with it in breeding. Many thanks for putting that in my hands!

Paul