Recommended Diploids?

Do any of you have any Diploids you have worked with you would recommend for furthering a Diploid breeding line? Strong yellow or red pigmenting would be a plus, but health and vigor are far more important. Remontancy genes would be nice also. I am looking for some good mates to put on 0-47-19 (a confirmed Diploid) that might encourage it to bring up some stronger colors. (It makes a lot of pinks and whites) Any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks.

Paul

PS: I have a population of excellent seedlings resulting from a cross of 0-47-19 X ‘Trier’ (‘Trier’ is a known Diploid) and several are being looked at for furthering a Blackspot resistant Diploid line, but as stated above these are all pale pinks or whites. Some color would be nice!

I never used either one but what about Red Germain or Oakington Ruby. I think both of them should be diploids. Or one of the earlier R. wichuriana ramblers.

The most richly colored group of diploids I can think of are the polys. Lens worked a lot with diploids so sometimes I look at his work for inspiration. It would be nice to have some new options.

I have been recommending Bonavista (a China X rugosa cross developed in Canada); and sending open pollinated seeds to those interested.

It appears to have both diploid and tetraploid pollen, see:

http://www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=8870#13775

Other threads that include Bonavista can be found at:

http://www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/search.php?searchFor=bonavista&searchMsgs=Search

I have not received any feedback from those who received the seeds.

Thanks for that info Henry. I would prefer to work with cultivars that have color other than pink or white, since this is a color limitation I am already dealing with in my chosen seed parent. I would prefer to work with a confirmed diploid that produces only diploid pollen, if possible, so that I don’t have to check all of the offspring for ploidy before moving forward.

I could always work with Slater’s Crimson if I had to, but again, its a triploid. Same with Gloire de Rosomanes.

Paul

“for furthering a Blackspot resistant Diploid line”

“prefer to work with cultivars that have color other than pink or white”

I’ve noticed R. laxa Retzius has passed Blackspot resistance for multiple generations. I’m taking it that Suzanne is diploid and non-remontant.

I was thinking about trying to cross it say with R. Hugonis (which does great for me here in TN) or Golden Chersonese or Xanthina…etc. To come up with a yellow, BS Resistant, non-remontant diploid. Then try it on a remontant diploid like Robin Hood. Then grow op seeds…

I’d think any of the Kosters are safe bets. The color range is limited they do get into the orangey range. ‘Violet Hood’ I would guess diploid. ‘Rosy Purple’ look to be derived from ‘Baby Faurax’ or similar to my eye. I’m guessing diploid.

It’s the diploid yellows that are most problematic because they primarily arise from the Teas Noisettes, most notably ‘Reve d’or’. The yellow isn’t particularly saturated and they tend to fade rather quickly. The first few generations of descendants are mostly diploid.

My cross of ‘Amber Cloud’ x ‘Leonie Lamesch’ is another step in this direction. I just moved it up into a 15 gal . container this morning. It’s obviously going to be vigorous as there were roots everywhere. I hope I get a good Spring flowering.

Thanks for the tip regarding 'Oakington Ruby and Blackpsot. I was going to utilize it this Spring.

Btw, polys don’t always throw seedlings that produce tiny blossoms. I have a first generation cross that produces blossoms 6" across. Weird huh?

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5197.0&tab=21&lstTyp=256

Leonie Lamesch is super healthy here. Its major fault is that it dislikes being pruned during the dormant season. It works both ways, too. I am guessing that it could be more hardy, too, seeing that it has a lot of tea in it.

Danae would work well for what you are doing…except that it can be prone to mildew :frowning:

fwiw, I think its given parentage is wrong, but I have no clue what it is except that Trier is definitely involved. The soundest theory that I have heard is that it is a self of Trier, but I am not positive on that theory…

So, my 2 cents for you would be for Leonie Lamesch or Baby Faurax.

Ive been meaning to get Sunshine for years. That may work for you, too, but I have zero experience with it.

I have Leonie Lamesch…do we know its ploidy for sure?

I ordered and received the polyantha Sunshine this Fall and its first bloom last week faded rather fast like one of its parents William Allen Richardson. I don’t know if it produces good color in its seedlings yet but it might be worth a try. It is for sure diploid if the parentage is correct. It states that it does not have much vigor but that is easily overcome.

Patrick

There’s nothing in the lineage of Leonie Lamesch that would suggests it is anything but diploid. I assumed it was diploid which is the reason I used it. So far the colors is produces are less saturated than I would prefer.

Are any of the Drift roses a possibility? Peach drift is a very warm peachy/apricot with yellow undertones, Ivory drift is pale yellow, fading to Ivory, and Red drift has a very true red hue that is not pinky, coral or blued. It has Ralphs creeper in its breeding, and almost all of the Drifts are some combo of a hybrid Wichuriana, the Fairy, Immensee, and Koster sports. I picked 17 of Peach Drift hips and they are starting to sprout-put up in baggies with sand on 12.17.08, so it is a definitely good germinater and the bushes are extremely disease resistant and vigorous. I use them regularly in landscape installations, and am impressed with the three above along with Pink drift plus Coral drift, which is quite similar but more orange in color than Electric Blanket. It’s bright, but it’s still a pink. And of course they are non stop bloomers, and grow a little wider/taller than described. I’m assuming that they are diploids based on their parents-so I may be way off base here,and there are some miniatures in some of their backgrounds.

Arethusa, a pale peach, is healthy in my garden with absolutely no spraying. It sets seed easily & seedlings are easy to root.

Paul, you have worked with Monsieur Tillier, would that work?

Patrick

The Drift series are from diploids and tetraploids. Examples include, The Fairy, Rosa wichurana, Red Max Graf, Iceberg, Red minimo, Paul Crampbell, Lady Gay Ralph’s Creeper and so on…

btw, I dont recommend Coral Drift. I got it last year because of the supposed “coral color”… It is ugly as sin, lol. Its a very washed out, muted pink with a slight orange tinge (and a slight toilet tinge, in my opinion =/ ).

White Drift is very carefree and pretty. White Drift and Spring Fever could pass as color mutations of one another. They may be both diploid, but I dont know for sure and this doesnt help Paul.

Zenattia is an orange-red polyantha, but it doesnt look tetraploid to me. The parentage is unknown, but Im guessing it is a descendant of The Fairy and something more modern.

Hi Paul,

I have a little cutting of Leonie Lamesch in the basement now from the plant at the MN Landscape Arboretum. I should look for root tips and count it. I’m not sure if it is the right rose though. This one is very healthy and looks more than diploid to me in the petal substance and leaf shape and substance. It is a nice deep almost warm red color. It sets almost no hips. It looks more like a floribunda to me than a typical small flowered polyantha. Does this sound like the real Leonie Lamesch? This rose at the MN Landscape arb is sure pretty whatever it is.

Sincerely,

David

There is a nice rose coming out called Lavender Meidiland that is diploid. It is a nice soft mauve color, a little different than pink, and it does set op hips easily. It basically looks like a larger growing polyantha. It has relatively large blooms with well branched inflorescences. It reminds me a bit of ‘Marie Pavie’, but with stronger necks that don’t droop. It is floriferous and really nice. There is some blackspot, but probably better than most. I got and distributed it to local MN public rose gardens last year to see how hardy and disease resistant it is for possible inclusion in future EarthKind trials.

David

Wow, I would never guess Lavender Meidiland diploid from it’s purported lineage. I guess it just goes to prove you never know.

I can understand why it spots.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=50145&tab=21&lstTyp=16

Leonie Lamesch, here, is butter yellow with reddish tips that become overcome with salmon and rust red as it ages. The plant is upright, floribunda sized, tea/china-like leaves, dark green leaves. The signifying trait that it has is that its petals look like plastic in the bud to opening stage of blooming.