I recently ran across this rose planted at Umore park south of Minneapolis, MN. It had a single blossom cluster (pictured in link).
The smell of this rose elicited an emotional response that caught me off guard. It wasn’t like smelling a regular rugosa. Maybe my mind was prepped by first reading the tag, who knows.
Of course I immediately started fantasizing about breeding with it, but it seems quite sterile. Has anyone successfully used pollen from this rose? There are no descendants listed on HMF.
What can I do? Now that the emotional response has occured, I have to add yet another goal to my fragmented breeding plans.
I guess this post has two goals. First, I’d like some advice about how to go about breeding for amazing fragrance in Zone 3. Secondly, I’d love to hear your stories about any rose whose fragrance was so wonderful that it made you irrational.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.181552
A warning: I have never grown a rose that was that eager to Rust, Mildew and Blackspot at the same time. It was appallingly unhealthy and was dug up and removed after three years of chronic poor health. I cannot imagine using it in breeding. Stick with one of the “pure” Rugosas if you want a breeder, such as ‘Roseraie de l’Hay’ or ‘Rugosa Magnifica’. Seriously.
Wow, thanks for the warning. You had mentioned the rust in a previous thread, but I didn’t know it had all three. Sigh.
Wow, Paul! I knew it was terrible here in a long growing season, but it must REALLY be terrible to be that awful in your climate. Rosarie de l’Hay was that bad here, too, as was Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, Sir Thomas Lipton…Kim
I notice rust often comes from the Cinn. family. I am not sure why, but its something to be aware of when culling, obviously.
Would you thus consider rust as the original Cinn of that family?
Larry, you are permanently banned from this thread for violating Rule 47, Subsection 12c, ‘Usage of Bad Puns.’
Ok, I laughed out loud.
I laughed a little bit out loud too.
And in response to Joe’s request for stories about a “smell of this rose eliciting an emotional response”. That made me think about a lilac I have blooming right now here in Maryland. It’s Syringa microphylla ‘Superba’. Everytime I pass it I have to stop and sniff. It always makes me smile. Close your eyes and it’s like a little flashback to Spring everytime!
As far as roses go, the peppery scent of some rose pedicels (‘Mutabilis’ and ‘Dr. Huey’ for examples) always makes me think of the roses I smelled as a child. I love that smell maybe even more than the flower smell.
Tom, our noses are related! Lilac is my absolute favorite natural scent. The sweet, peppery scent of Mutabilis and other similarly scneted China roses stops me in my tracks, too. I wish you could smell the scent from Grandmother’s Hat. It contains much of that scent, combined with a fresh Cedar element. It’s been quite interesting following the Nobel Fir with hardwood smoke scent of Fedtschenkoana as it evolves through various evergreen scents through the hybrids.
Add Plumeria, Jasmine officianalis, Citrus blossom, Gardenia and Daphne and I am in Heaven! Kim
I never been able to smell Jasmine for some reason. It is one of my wife’s favorite however. But the smell of the daylily Hypernion and the faint smell of Four O clocks remind me of being a small child playing in the garden. I too love lilacs which always smells like my moms perfume. My absolute favorite rose for scent is from an Autumn Damask do not know the name of it but it has a classic old rose scent with a sharp bite of some short to it. It is amazing what scent can make us remember and smelling something like cookies can make us fell instantly better.
One of my favorite scents is Colorado Spruce on a warm day…for some reason it smells like a flower to me and I never initially realize what I am smelling.
Joe,
You stated: “First, I’d like some advice about how to to go about breeding for amazing fragrance in Zone 3.” No one has answered this query of yours, so I will.
If your goal is fully cold hardy roses, essentially you are looking at two types of roses to work with.
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Rosa altaica/spinosissima
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Rosa rugosa
I would also work with Rosa laxa. Although the fragrance may be disagreeable to some people (I don’t mind it), perhaps with the right combinaton with another species or species hybrid a breeding line could be developed with very good fragrance. In fact, if it is true that Rosa laxa is in the parentage of ‘Suzanne’ this has already happened.
Many years ago I discovered a rose seedling on Robert Simonet’s property that obviously came from Rosa laxa and it was very fragrant. This Rosa laxa seedling still exists and is located at the Devonian Botanic Garden rose garden.
Some Gallica cultivars (cold hardy to Zone 4) have mild or good fragrance. I have a good looking seedling (hasn’t bloomed yet) of ‘D’Aguesseau’ x ‘John Davis’. This breeding goal is an attempt to develop a breeding line having a good balance of fragrance, cold hardiness and disease resistance. So, this may also be a potential route for you - working with Gallicas. For exceptional fragrance though, Gallica cultivars would have to be crossed with Spinosissima ones. In fact, I am doing this. The limitation of doing this, of course, is the progeny will only be once blooming. Developing repeat blooming roses for northern geographical regions is a characteristic that can be problematic anyway. Many cultivars only crown hardy to Zone 3 repeating their bloom don’t do it very well and therefore don’t have much advantage over once blooming ones.
I hope this is of some help to you.
Then, instead of “repeat flowering”, you need to develop a cane hardy one with an “all season” once flowering. I understand Rugosa for one, doesn’t “repeat” but have a long, seasonal bloom. What might be used to create something along those lines? Kim
Thanks, Paul.
What about the albas and the centifolias…or Maiden’s Blush? The latter is listed on HMF as Zone 3 and having a strong fragrance. I just bought one.
I have a rose in the field that someone gave to me as the “Cabbage Rose”, which I’m assuming would be R. centifolia. Other than the fact that it’s covered with rust, it’s doing fine.
I don’t have any mature spinossisimas yet. I have a Stanwell Perpetual in a pot and a couple of newly planted Prairie Peace in the ground.
For a gallica, I have Apothecary and it does well, despite suckering to an annoying degree. I love the shape of a few 1st generation crosses, but they die back and don’t bloom.
I love the idea of combining fragrances, although I imagine it won’t happen as easily as blending colors. I love the fruity tangerine scent of Morden Sunrise, but it passes on horrid blackspot susceptibility. Anybody know of healthy modern roses with that same fruitiness?
Belle Poitevine is my most fragrant rugosa.
I’m rooting cuttings of the supposedly tetraploid Rugosa #3, so one cross that springs to mind is Rugosa #3 x Stanwell Perpetual.
also
Apothecary x Stanwell Perpetual
Scentimental x SP
Cuthbert Grant x SP
OK, I’m just babbling and brainstorming here. I would appreciate any comments about using R. alba, R. centifolia, and/or Maiden’s Blush in cold hardy breeding.
I believe most of the Albas are hexaploid and have a special asymmetrical way of dividing their chromosomes depending on whether they are used for seed or pollen (search forum for posts on Caninae meiosis). To the best of my understanding as an English major, when the Canina (in this case, Alba) parent is the seed parent, offspring take much more after Mom.
The Centifolias are also wonderfully fragrant. My mother was once given some jam made in France from Centifolia petals and the memory of that flavor has lingered… However, they are notorious for low fertility. They are obviously not totally sterile or Ralph Moore would not have been able to use Chapeau de Napoleon/Crested Moss to breed crested roses. I think they would be best used as pollen parents. If anybody has a different experience, please contradict.
I love these roses too, and wish more cold-hardy roses had that kind of perfume! Good luck!
Thanks, Betsy!
My centifolias, what was given to me as Cabbage Rose, actually have quite a few OP hips on them, so that’s an encouraging sign of female fertility.
My main worry is how aggressively they will pass on their susceptibility to rust.
Joe, based upon breeding for all other desirable traits, what you NEED to do is breed FOR rust. That should guaranty the seedlings will be immune to it. Kim
I can confirm Kim’s assertion that Murphy’s Law does apply to rose breeding.
