And that is a tragedy, since ‘Blue Mist’ is in that one percent group of modern miniatures (well, its about as Polyantha as they get, actually) that grows here with abandon, never loses foliage to ANY disease, and must be one of the most graceful (round ball style), everblooming 4 X 4 foot shrubs I have ever grown, which says a lot, as I had over 3000 distinct cultivars in the garden at its peak in 2007. I’m sure its not the ideal rose everywhere, but here, it is flawless. As a breeder, however, I never got anything decent from it. I suspect that, like many Polyanthas with significant R. multiflora traits, it doesn’t “play nice” when bred outside its own class. I raised thousands of seedlings from the Lens hybrid ‘Rosy Purple’ in the past few years, and any cross I made mating it with Floribunda or modern shrub types (the ones with HT/Floribunda pedigree), the result was a sea of weak, mildew prone horrors, many of which never bloomed before succumbing to mildew. However, when I mated the Lens hybrid with Moore Polys descended from R. multiflora, many seedlings were brilliantly healthy, bloomed with abandon, made shapely plants and all had glorious fragrances. (Think ‘Vineyard Song’ style) Sometimes, things get broken when you try to merge plants with distinctly different pedigrees.
I’m guessing ‘Blue Mist’ might be capable of breeding something stellar (likely more Poly types) if you hit it with the right thing(s), and that would be well worth investigating.
As for Kim’s remarks about the distinction between the (sad-but-appropriately named) “disposable pot plant” VS the diminutive garden shrub, he’s right on the money, as always.
There have been a lot of insitefull posts in this thread including the voice of experience of Paul Barden who I was able to observe since very early in his hybridizing days. My comment here may seem insignificant but it actually was the reason I stopped growing minatures - rabbits.
I stopped growing minis in the ground in the Newhall garden for the same reason, Henry. I made slump stone block planters to raise them off the ground to keep them ALIVE. Here, it’s the same issue. anything they can get their mouths on is history.
That’s pretty much the reason I’m budding anything I want to use for breeding on standards. I HOPE being up in the air, far enough away from other points of access, will help prevent the rodents from eating the hips as voraciously.
I am in complete agreement about Blue Mist. It roots like Bermuda Grass; grows spledidly in filtered light here and only had chlorosis issues due to the alkalinity here. It even has a honeysuckle fragrance to my nose. It got HUGE and flowered year round. It was a lovely plant. I tried raising self seeds from it but nothing ever made it much past the half inch high stage.
Hi Henry: I have rabbits and chipmunks here that eat my minis, so I shipped them to Kim’s friend in California. Blue Mist is more like a polyantha, tall enough so it doesn’t get eaten. If not for roses, a daily walk around my neighborhood would be utterly boring. Unlike Australian taste for white, its RED everywhere here… red Knock-out, red Home run, red poly-flori-rose. We need more blue/lavender like Blue Mist.
Blue is rare in alkaline soil. I saw Blue Delphinium plants sold for $16 each at Home Depot … people buy off without knowing that Delphinium lasts 2 years max in heavy clay. I can’t imagine a garden without blue … so enlightening.
OK, Paul, in your learned opinion, I should not bother planting the bag of Rosy Purple X Lynnie seeds? I’m not being a smart aleck, but if you’ve not raised anything worth the time from Rosy Purple X ‘not multiflora’, I could probably benefit from not wasting the time/space. Thanks!
I stopped growing minis for two reasons – their nature makes them blackspot prone and 1 miniature is more work than 5 hybrid teas to a tall person. After 10 years, I decided miniatures were too degrading to dead-head.
Blue Mist seems a lot like Gourmet Popcorn, which is also polyantha derived and could easily be classed as a polyantha.
I have found ‘Lynnie’ to be full of surprises, genetically, so I wouldn’t dare assume anything about it until I see the results, so do not discard these!. I wish I had started using ‘Lynnie’ five years sooner. I think it may have the ability to unlock all kinds of secret doors. I crossed it with ‘Castle Bravo’ in 2010 and got nearly thornless shrubs that are rapid rebloomers with great vigor and health, and rich reds in color. Quite remarkable.
Hi Gvarden, from Teresa: I checked on the lineage of my Flower Carpet Coral: it’s Repandia x floribunda Red Summer. Repandia is a once-blooming, strong fragrance Hybrid Wichurana, which explains why F.C.Coral is drought-resistant. I don’t understand why a once-blooming seed-parent like Repandia can give rise to always blooming F.C.Coral. Thanks for any info.
Repandia is The Fairy x seedling of wild species Rosa Wichuraiana (Memorial Rose, widely available) This helps to make F.C.Coral 100% disease-resistant. My Flower Carpet is in a wet swamp with tiny glossy, light green foliage. The thorns are very wide-spaced apart, more low-thorn than the “almost-thornless-Austin-claim” Queen of Sweden and Crown P. Mag. I love my Flower Carpet for its almost smooth stem, glossy tiny foliage, and always blooming. I never water mine for the past 7 years.
This isn’t surprising, really. Repandia is a once bloomer with one copy of the repeat bloom gene, and Red Summer has two copies, making it fully remontant. (Remontancy is a recessive trait in roses, and so a plant must have two copies to be a genuine repeat bloomer) By crossing Repandia with Red Summer you get a group of seedlings with approximately 50% having one copy of the gene, and 50% having two, so the breeder likely saw a mix of seedlings of which about half were continuous bloomers. Does that shed some light on the matter?
Thank you, Paul, for excellent explantion of the matter. Is fragrance also a recessive trait? Do you get 1/4 smelly, 3/4 none? I like the red color on your Castle Bravo X Lynnie. I like Basyes Blue. better when it’s reddish in cold fall with its wild rose scent. Fragrance can be a strong selling point, if it’s on the rose at the store. Folks spend money on perfume, and some aren’t that great. I kept sniffing my neighbor’s Rock-n’-Roll Grandflora (wild rose scent), and my 4th grader yelled, “Get your own, Mom!”
Thank you, Paul. I appreciate that information. I had read Dr. Basye’s ARS article where he said if he had it to do over, he would have incorporated the “third BS stud bull, Wichurana” in the mix when creating 77-361. I figured Torch of Liberty being Orangeade and Golden Angel, would have the ability to saturate colors, engineer in dwarf plants with heavy repeat flowering, as well as contain a decent dose of Wichurana. It sure seems to have worked better than I could have hoped!
he would have incorporated the “third BS stud bull, Wichurana” in the mix when creating 77-361
I have always remembered this information, from when I first read it from your writings somewhere else, I think it was HMF.
Well done on Lynnie.
Firstly thank you for sharing (and thus preserving) such meaninful anecdotes stemming from the thoughts of other visionary breeders.
The ultimate point I am making here, is that after all this time, I am now extremely lucky thanks to David Z, to have one keeper each of 3K20 X unknown (rugosa x wichurana and likely tetraploid) and Basyes Legacy X unknown (likely tetraploid).
If luck has it that these two keeper seedlings ever flower for me, you can bet ur bottom dollar both are gonna get mixed with eachother, in accordance with that formula you shared.
My pleasure, George! I shall search out the specific article and post it here so you can read his thoughts yourself. Paraphrasing, from memory, there are bound to be points missed. Really fun stuff, though! Thanks for the sentiments about Lynnie.
