Jon's Rather Rambling Rose Rant...

Someone else here has dedicated a post to themselves to show seedlings as they come. I don’t have regular internet access but I will continue to add to this post over time.

So here is. My first bloom of the season. It should be fully open by tomorrow. My camera doesn’t capture reds faithfully anyways. It’s a velvet red with a base of orange (yellow). 12 petals or so…I expect that to increase.

Carefree Beauty x (Knockout x Flirtatious)

This is the most vigorous seedling I have grown to date. This is it on 6 dec…so 35 days from above. This photo, if traced or photo-shopped, would make a good logo for this forum… it’s public domain…

So there’s another story from the first picture. Do you see that tiny little seedling at the top of the pot? That came from the base of Persian Flame from Sequoia Nursery. At first I was trying to figure out how I got some rugosa seed there but then I realised that it looked smaller than that of the normal rugosa and that it probably hitched a ride from Sequoia…does it look like a miniature to you? It’s just as old as the Carefree Beauty seedling. The zinnia is the oldest…it came up “wild” from the dirt put in the pot. I’m surprised a rose seedling could overtake a zinnia. I also have a Graham Thomas x (Knockout x Flirtatious) seedling with a bud…should have first bloom in a month.

Also I would like to open up a conversation on leaf coatings and disease resistance as all of my x (Knockout x Flirtatious) seedlings have a white coating which I presume is a yeast that lives off of wax?. My Knockout x Flirtatious seedlings didn’t have a white coating but rather would produce oils that you could visibly see well up on the leaf on a hot day.

I’ve also been working on a disease free rose breeding list. Please feel free to critique or add to it.

Alexander Mckenzie


Aunt Honey

Baby Love

Baby Mermaid


You have a lot of good parents in list.

You can add Ruby Meidilland to that list; it’s been bulletproof here.


I will second Ruby Meidiland and add Peach Drift to that-but of course Southern Cal. doesn’t give disease a totally bulletproof target-more like buckshot. Peach Drift, which I grew and planted (approx. 25 plants) for the first time last year produced a lot of O.P. hips and I planted some seeds, which are now sprouting, after being cleaned around 12-17-08, placed in a baggie with moist sand and started sprouting Jan 11, 09. I thought that was fast. Almost all my seeds are cracking, sprouting or growing-first time I started them in baggies with fluctuating temps-from 35F to 60F-checked them last week and had 121 seeds that had sprouted. Cherry Parfait, another of my bulletproof roses, has 15 out of 25 germinated seeds. It was cleaned around Halloween, and has been in moist sand at fluctuating temps since then. I haven’t heard much about Cherry Parfait-any experiences out there?

Cherry Parfait looks and grows like a floribunda here. Pretty blooms. Pretty plant architecture. Bad blackspot, however. It basically looks like a floribunda version of Double Delight here. Heart and Soul, which is similar in color and bloom size/cluster size, is cleaner here, but much larger of a plant.

OK. I like pictures.

Here’s Carefree Beauty x (Knockout x Flirtatious) in full bloom. It changed colors. You can still see hints of the knockout red…it’s definitely not Carefree Beauty pink. It’s got the pointed petals of Flirtatious and also hints of striping and a touch of yellow at the base of the petals from flirtatious.

Here’s Mom (Carefree Beauty)

Carefree Beauty seed.

Here’s Dad (Knockout x Flirtatious)

It’s as disease resistant as Knockout for me. This is its foliage in autumn.

Speaking of Knockout…

Knockout hip w/seed.

Knockout seed.

Flirtatious is a nice rose in its own right. The lineage of it reads like a who’s-who of famous rose hybridizers.

Pics of another seedling first bloom…graham thomas x (knockout x flirtatious)?

Rather typical. I’m going to be disappointed if I can’t get some yellows.

I will say this…my light cycle says mid-summer. My only blooms are from knockout descendents…this is what helmefind says on knockout, “The blooming cycle is believed to be one of the longest observed to date for a rose plant…”. The first seedling I posted pics of above is already working on its second cycle of three buds and has set seed from its first bloom. No other plant compares to rose to the almost instant results that can be seen from breeding…azaleas and camellias take years to move forward.

There’s another post about passing dark foliage from knockout. This is my other knockout x flirtatious seedling that carries extremely dark foliage. Both of my ko x flirt seedlings are tetraploid which is pretty cool. I’m showing lots of pics because it sorta changes…I wonder if that’s related to its having striping genes.

Long time ago, on Bill Radler’s website he attributed the disease resistance of knockout on razzle dazzle…NOT carefree beauty. For Bill Warriner not to have given parentage of razzle dazzle is odd (he was pretty good at keeping track)… I wonder if it was because he was playing with a found rose that he didn’t have a name. I wonder if it were a species hybrid like wichuraiana…razzle dazzles triploid nature sorta suggests this. I have at least one seedling of knockout that is a true miniature…no more that 8" tall and is three years old. Disease free, flowers great…tiny red & white bicolor…tiny dark green foliage.

Very nice flowers Jon. I really like the color of the KO x Flirtatous seedling. I’m glad to see you have seedlings of Graham Thomas as the seed parent. So far none of my Graham Thomas seeds have gerrminated. For me so far it has been a much better pollen parent than seed parent.

Beautiful pictures. I had no idea you are so into roses.

Are these all miniature? Surely these plants are all dormant now considering the weather where you live, or do you have a greenhouse or something?

Can you give me any recommendations for roses that should do well in a Mediterranean-type climate? Zone 10, not desert, but not beach cool, either. Very much appreciated.

Thank you all for the kind comments.

"Posted by Sandy Shanks [email] on Tue, Feb 10, 2009

Beautiful pictures. I had no idea you are so into roses."

Mom, is that you? How did ya find me? I grow under lights in the winter. Here’s more pics…wanting to show more of the dark foliage of knockout seedlings.

…KO x Flirtatious (Red)…notice how the foliage darkened in two months.

…KO x Flirtatious (Pink)

I suspect these are selfed seedlings(from knockout) and will be miniatures…still too soon to know for sure.

Here’s my grow operation.

Here’s CB x (KO x Flirt.) again…one month apart…about to make second blooms.

Here’s the second bloom of G.Thomas x (KO x Flirt.). Most of my GT seeds are still outside in cold storage…but I planted two early ripening hips early. This one is showing some yellow & pink striping on the reverse…it also gained two more petals.


Deciduous Azalea’s

These are pics of some of my favs right now.

Anne Harkness

Bella Roma



Anne Harkness is where one of my named seedlings, Roar!, got its wonderful color. It is where that unique caramel shading comes from via its kid, Princess Alice.

She is a lovely color…and just the right number of petals for my taste. My fav. at the moment.

Please forgive me for posting more pics but this is my first (and only) carefree beauty seedling…I bought CB last spring because of KO. If this is any indication, I can’t wait for the rest of my CB seedlings.

This is the second (&3rd, &4th) blooms of CB x (KO x Flirt.)

It has almost rugosa-like prickers, which none of the parents exhibit. Also notice the white leaf coating. Although it’s pink, I expect this to be on par with KO as far as disease resistance.

Notice how the smaller flower is darker. I bruised the second one by being impatient to count petals (@ 16).

I got to do something that I read about here (that cought my fancy)- but never had a chance of doing. Because the very first flower is making seed (@2 months old!), I bought clearanced valentines day rose blooms to pollinate these three blooms. I may end up with another crop of rose seedlings this summer!

If you like Anne Harkness, you may like Anne Hathaway, its grandkid. I bought it last year. It has wondrous substance and color, but it I am not sure yet of its fertility. I still do not know what I should cross it with as the color and background are an odd combo.

I looked it up on helpmefind. She is pretty too. Another Harkness creation I would like is Ginger Syllabub.

Im loving a lot of their hybrids. I didnt get GY, but I did get Penny Lane, which I am liking a lot. I have seeds of it crossed with Salita and Solitaire waiting to germinate. I plan to cross it with Salita, Toprose, Sweetness and one of Robert’s banksia hybrids this coming June. I may as well add Hot Cocoa onto it, too. lol. It set a lot of seeds in its trial rub, so I plan on seeing what it can do this year. Maybe GY holds the same for you.

I’m a fan of Harkness too. Which of my seedlings are you going to use with ‘Penny Lane’ Jadae?

The one I named Robert’s #4 :stuck_out_tongue: lol. It’s uh Armada x Lila Banks.

I figured that was the one. If used as pollen with ‘Penny Lane’ it will be double up on ‘New Dawn’ through ‘Armada’.

It produced a nice climber as pollen parent before I sent it to you. Seedlings will undoubtedly be pink.

I was guessing pink, white and blush tones.

I just wasted 20 minutes trying to figure out how to use the Australian database in hopes to see if the patent there on Penny Lane had the male parent shown :frowning: I gave up on trying to use the EU patent database lol.

I had a look through the Australian “Plant Varieties Journal. Quarter Two. 2003. Volume 16. Number 2” And it makes no reference to the parents of Penny Lane / Hardwell All new approved PBR applications are published in this jounral in Australia and this is the only reference to application number: 2002/014 anywhere in