I’ve pretty much decided that hybrid teas suck in the Oregon Cascade Foothills. Most of them already have black spot and are defoliating. On the other hand many of the floribundas, polyanthas and some select minis seem fine. I went out and bought Bayer 3 in 1, but I don’t think that is going to be the answer for breeding. HT’s may look okay in the yard after treatment, but they seem genetically lacking.

Is it just me or does anybody else have a negative experience with the latest and greatest HT’s?

Which HT’s in your area are the worst of the offenders, Jeff?

So far Henry Fonda, Mr. Lincoln, Nancy Reagan, Pascalli, Olympiad, Double Delight and John Kennedy have BS.

Betty Boop (not an HT) got it real bad last year and is bad again. It’s getting the shovel tomorrow. Angel Face and another mauve thing (I think it was Blue Girl) got the shovel today.

Cal Poly (a Moore mini), Topaz Jewel, Goldilocks, French Perfume, Buttermint, Graham Thomas, Crested Moss and Henri Martin seem to be doing the best.

I shouldn’t be surprised. This is only my second year absorbing the RHA informnation and I don’t think I’ve purchased an HT since I started reading here. Most of my HT roses were purchased before I found this forum. Mini’s, floribundas, polyanthas and shrubs were purchased with a little more knowledge under my belt.

I like the HT flower shape, but the growing habit of the HT is not my favorite. My taste in bloom form is starting to take a turn as well.

lol…of those you list, Mr Lincoln and Double Delight performed like garbage, here where I live…I have not grown any of the others you list, to compare.

I guess most here have gone down the same sad shovel-pruning path, don’t feel so bad!

I guess it’s all part of the learning curve.

so very true!

BTW…Mr Lincoln OP hips make really big hard-shelled achenes …the poor embryos are literally encased in thick cement…germinating them could be challenging, but I never tried to know for sure…lol

I modified a pair of wire cutters for cracking open the shells. It was getting the embryo out of the “twine” they were wrapped up in that gave me the most problems. I managed to cut, squash or basically mangel the poor embryos before I was done. I don’t think I have the touch for it.

I’m going to shy away from HT’s. They seem that have major issues with BS here in Oregon, no matter what the grower’s label says. (That’s my limited experience.) I’ll keep a few because the wife likes to have them for cut flowers.

Those are all awful HT’s.

I can tell you than Solitaire, Pride of England, Selfridges, Rose Rhapsody and others I cannot think of right now do pretty well in Western Oregon. Pride of England is practically a weed here, lol.

So, there are some HTs that are easy keepers – just not a ton, and often not the usual ones that are mass marketed.

btw, how is Goldilocks bs resistant there? That rose was born to defoliate =/ That was the second rose I ever owned (and the first to meet mr. shovel, hehe). I still actually own my first ever rose (American Honor). It has always been super healthy but I never recommend it because I have no clue how it performs elsewhere. Given that Sheer Elegance is its parent, I have a feeling that it performs best in the Portland area, lol. I guess that makes it an 18 year old bare root HT that is immune to the efforts of mr. shovel :stuck_out_tongue:

Jeff, the embryo comment I made was more of an observational/fun thing…(I sometimes muck around with these achenes and embryo extract them, to learn a little about the anatomy of such, more than for any other reason these days…I nearly never end up actually culturing them, unless there is some idea I am trying to test out).

While I remember Jeff, some of the experts here have attested to the good health of Roundelay as well.


Goldilocks has been in the ground for a couple of years and has done very well here, no mildew or BS yet.

Thanks to you and George for the HT suggestions. I’ll add some of those to my wish list.

Of those you mentioned I have Henry Fonda, Mr. Lincoln, Double Delight, Betty Boop, & Cal Poly and I can agree with you on these. In breeding though the object is to get something better. (On the side or incidentally, Sunshine Sally has turned out to be a great rose- better than Cal Poly for me.) Also my Graham Thomas died during the winter (We’ve had worse winters and I’ve had it for some years), but I do have three seedlings from it though. I think it’s interesting that the thick shelled achenes on Mr. Lincoln was mentioned because that is exactly the problem with the germination of Oklahoma. I finally broke some open this spring after no germinations. I did find one embryo that had developed the root tip inside the achene… so anyway. I would like to do a backcross (of KO x Oklahoma) to Oklahoma. These past several years I have put KO on Oklahoma, IT ALWAYS TAKES. I think embryo culture would be the way to go on that one. Because of this, I’ve been mulling around on a suitable parent with better germination and I’m tempted to buy Chrysler Imperial again for this purpose. I don’t like Mr. Lincoln at all and can’t understand why it is so popular.

Proud Land was the only HT from that era of red HTs that I could tolerate. It has some of the biggest blooms I have ever seen. It should be fertile. It was healthy for the years that I grew it.

I don’t like Mr. Lincoln at all and can’t understand why it is so popular.

One big reason is that it is relatively winter hardy compared to most of the classic HT’s. Swim’s and Weeks’ roses were bred for southern gardens but Mister Lincoln over-winters in the northern Connecticut River valley pretty well. Older canes can get pretty woody.

Another reason is simply that a blossom from a healthy, virus free Mister Lincoln is a real treat. Same goes for Chrysler Imperial and Papa Meilland.

I know I have once heard someone reference it as a ‘one cane wonder’. That describes mine to a tee.

“Older canes can get pretty woody.”

Yup, my 8’ cane is quite woody and doesn’t exhibit any winter dieback. I don’t like the dull red and think OK beats it hands down (plus it’s too tall and not spreading enough). I suspect I would like Papa Meilland and it has been used as a seed parent before. Two others I’ve considered would be Ena Harkness or Charles Mallerin or perhaps Big Ben or Firefighter???

Ena Harkness requires …peduncle aid… but is otherwise wonderful for an old red.

Big Ben refused to open for me. I finally just dug it up since the blooms refused to unfurl. Toro does the same here, so your mileage may vary.

Firefighter is a cool rose but it kept giving me pinks

=( Then again, I kept crossing it with Purple Heart lol.

My fave fragrant red HT is Alec’s Red, but it has pink overtones, so it may not be your thing. It’s fairly healthy for an HT, though.

Just for fun, here are a few pictures from a relative’s poor little sad Mr Lincoln specimen (it grows very very poorly as an own rooted cutting in their garden…lol).

Here a hip

Here the large achenes contained in the hip above:

Pictured here is one of the above achenes opened, showing an imprinting of the embryo shape…check out the SUPER density of the achene wall!!

I nearly broke the box cutter blade trying to open some of these.

About 50% of the achenes contained very dehydrated embryos (these could potentially all germinate), the other half of the achenes contained bits of shrivelled testa (these would never germinate).

None of these embryos were kept…I just thought by showing you all this, I could share with you some of the details of the fruits of this very fragrant HT.