I am making an attempt to breed Hyrid China’s roses here in Australia as a means of creating resistance to those dreaded fungus diseases and so those people who live in our semi tropical region can enjoy growing roses with out having to spray the living daylights out of them , and them selves. Will be doing a few crosses this year using a range of different China’s as to build a breeding cell. In the two photographs shown are Baronne E D Rothschild X Mutabilis. The first one has a single pale pink bloom with a large white eye, new foliage is green and the prickles are hooked like that of Canina. This pic is of the plant only showing no flowers (bit early). Both repeat bloom very well.
This is the second Baronne E D Rothschild X Mutabilis. Bloom is vermillion, semi double, new foliage is red ageing to dark green, thorns are more numerous than the first but not hooked.
Very pretty foliage on the second one Warren. Kim
Thanks Kim, The first ones foliage is a bit coarse looking , but it is the starting point of a new breeding cell, hopefully I will be able to soften it up as the years go. Have gone back to the rose that started it all, Old Blush. There are hips forming on it and Ten Thousand Lights ( A rose that was bought out of China to Australia not that long ago , which looks alot like Old Blush). I have still to use Comtesse Du Cayla, whose foliage health would be good as Mutabilis.
Here is a pic of the first one with its hooked prickles, didnt think they would turn out like this, but stranger things have happened.
Warren, please cross pollinate Comtesse du Cayla with Mutabilis! I haven’t been able to accomplish that one yet and it seems a complete natural to me. Kim
Ugh Comtesse du Cayla x Mutabilis cross would be lovely, if it means a slighty more vigorous ‘Comtesse’, mine has taken a bit of a while to grow, but the petals are pure crepe de chine, its so unusual. Mutabilis seems to have a bit of a hardier constitution, the match IS perfect, I totally agree with you Kim.
Eventually I’d like to do a Comtesse cross with the Mutabilis seedling Plaisanterie, to get a double flowered ‘Plaisanterie’ type musk in the manner of ‘Comtesse’ would be gorgeous.
I love chinas, you may want to throw ‘Arethusa’ in there too Warren, it’s a lovely unusual apricot-pink with great fragrance, could inject that fragrance into your china line.
I love what you’re doing, the right crosses can create such nice things.
Kim, could you enlighten me why you are unable to make this cross, which part does not work ?
Howdy Kim;
I collected a whole lot of OP Mutabilis seed for my work in chromosome doubling, mind you the they germinated ok , but the percentage rate could have been better. I will have a go at at the Mutabilis X Comtesse Du Cayla and let you know in March/April on how they faired. I reckon Comtesse Du Cayla would look good crossed with something that would tighten the flower up a bit and add a few more petals.
Max;
I went on HMF and looked up Arethusa, looking at some of the pics there a few had mildew. Is it prone to comming down with mildew or maybe its the location these people had it growing , looked pretty shady. I like its form and colour.
Warren
Hi David, I have finally planted Comtesse and she’s not in any “mood” to set hips. She’s been stressed in a too small can with too little soil for too long. Mutabilis generates flowers continuously, but is reluctant to accept any pollen I put on it. Very few have held on long enough to form what could be loosely called hips. Once I saw the enormous Comtesse du Cayla at the Sacramento Historic Cemetery, I KNEW these two had to be “married”! Kim
Kim I could just see it. A rose celebrant in the making and sealed with two dabs of pollen.
Warren
Hi Warren, I’m attempting to make some remontant Hybrid Chinas this year also. Some good China seed setters that I know of are : Le Vesuve, Old Blush, Vincent Godsif, White Pearl in Red Dragon’s Mouth, Bermuda’s Kathleen. I’m sure there are several others, but these are the ones I’m trying. Louis Philippe and Archduke Charles seem to have low fertility.
If you have access to this one 'Purpurea' Rose it’s a LOT nicer than it photographs, and it is fertile. It’s completely spotless in these parts, roots easily and grows well own root. Miss Lowe is another similar in performance here. I can share cuttings of Purpurea with you Charles. Kim
Howdy Charles;
With the low fertility of Archduke Charles and Louis Phillipe have you considered using the pollen, if you have n’t done already. Looking at their pics on HMF the both seem to have abundant anthers present for pollen production. This year I used La Vesuve, Old Blush, Ten thousand Lights as seed parent and all have good hip set. The China Polinators used this year have been Comtesse Du Cayla, Old Blush, Ten Thousand Lights, Safmut (Tea X China) and 3C 33D ( HT X Mutabilis). These 3C 33D crosses are pollen fertile and do not normally set hips, the darker brighter pink of the two seedlings has set multiple hips, will have to stratify and sow some to see what the fertility is like.
Purpurea sounds interesting Kim, I sent you a PM.
Louis Philippe has plenty of anthers, but doesn’t release any pollen naturally. I have gotten a bit of pollen by crushing the anthers, however it hasn’t successfully made a hip on anything yet this year. LP will occasionally make a hip. I haven’t tried germinating them yet. Archduke Charles releases some pollen, but hasn’t stuck on anything. AC never seems to accept pollen for me.
Charles sometimes I think environmental temperature change can effect the fertility of some roses. This year I noticed a lot of things stuck to some cultivars, where in past years they showed great difficulty in producing hips. As discussed in the Mermaid thread, Mermaid in the past as a pollinator had produced nothing for me, however this year I have 5 hips forming of Mermaid on 5 different cultivars. My breeding season started very early this year , from early September, it would be like you guys in the U.S. starting in early March. I think sometimes when a season starts prematurely early and warmer, some cultivars become fertile for a short period of time.
As with the anthers not releasing pollen, for years I tried to get Troika (Royal Dane) to release pollen, only to get disheartened year after year, however this year, it produced masses of pollen. I would be persistent with those cultivars, you never know.
Definitely, Warren. In the hotter, inland valleys, Iceberg, Mermaid and Banksiae lutescens very seldom set any hips. Along the coast where it can be 50 degrees F cooler with a lot more humidity, all three form hips regularly. Whether there are any fertile seeds in them or not is another question, but the formation of fruit seems greatly supported by milder, damper conditions than you find in arid, high heat.
Good point, I will keep tinkering with them when I have some spare pollen to dabble about. Low priority though, as there seems to be better options to work with. Cecile Brunner falls into this category also.
Has anyone ever worked with Ducher? How is it’s fertility? I recently received some cuttings of this from a stunningly beautiful unsprayed specimen that had some op hips on it.
Charles, all the work I am doing with these China’s Is an attempt to develop roses which can tolerate Sub Tropical conditions, it is something I do on the side of my conventional breeding.
With the Ducher, Robert Rippetoe did some work with it.
Archduke Charles did not set a hip for me in Tampa Bay until it was almost 15 years old. About one in about five hips will fully develope.
Try La Marne x Mutabilis instead. The former sets seed easily.