Best miniatures as seed parents

Any experiences on which miniatures stand out as the largest producers of seed numbers?

There’s been quite a bit of discussion about this. The minis in general are very fertile.

That said some of those discussed include, ‘Joycie’. It’s extremely seed fertile and gives a fair number of full size offspring.

One of Ralph Moore’s favorite minis for seed was, ‘Sheri Anne’.

These may not be available where you are. No doubt you have a great deal to choose from.

Minis in general could use improvement in terms of disease resistance. You might decide amongst those that are the best doers for your area.

Lastly, roses and rose companies have personalities and affiliations just like people do.

I think it’s nice to promote those I have most affinity with.

Thank you Robert, once again!

My pleasure George. We vote with our dollars.

Supporting independent businesses is becoming more and more important.

Many are doing their best to survive right now.

I spotted this one today called ‘Fairy Tale’.

Has anyone used it, does anyone know it’s pedigree?


It says JACchar. I’m going to guess it has Sweet chariot in it. It looks like a mini The Fairy, though. I have no clue what it is in truth.

Here is a somewhat similar miniflora: 'JALgrad' Rose

I like the idea of mixing minis with wichurana-based shrublets. I am less keen on using Sexy Rexy with minis since it so freely passes on its nasty blackspot habit to its descendants, especially since minis are so physically prone to it due to their architecture density and closeness to the ground.

I don’t exactly grow a low of miniatures so my experience is limited.

My Sunshine made a LOT of seed hips for me this year.

Twilight Skies made some hips (although HMF says triploid).

Leading Lady also made seed for me (although miniature classification is borderline in my opinion).

I also spotted ‘Ivory Palace’ I think, and ‘Carrot Top’…Alas, there is not much to choose from outside ordering on-line which is probably risky business as one cannot see what they are buying before handing out the $$…

Try and find ‘Sweet Chariot’ George… if you can’t give me a yell and I’ll send you one. I’ve got about 40 different minis here from great to duds to choose from as well. If you find ‘Joycie’, ‘Teddy Bear’, or ‘Dresden Doll’ snap them up and let me know… these are ones I’ve been seeking for ages.

I have these ones and am happy to send you pollen from all of them or plants of non-patented varieties:

‘Starina’, ‘Pacesetter’, ‘Galaxy’, ‘Rise n Shine’ (suspect it is virused and is about to be thrown out), ‘Gold Coin’ (also suspect it is virused and will be thrown out), ‘Black Jade’, ‘Stars n Stripes’, ‘Sundust’, ‘Cri Cri’, ‘Snow Carpet’, ‘Popcorn’, ‘Cricket’, ‘Suntan’, ‘Peaches and Cream’, ‘Green ice’, Watercolour’, ‘Figurine’, ‘Baby Jack’, ‘New Hampshire’, ‘Sweet Chariot’, ‘Red Cascade’, ‘Magic Carrousel’ (one of my favs), ‘Laura Ashley’, ‘Bluesette’, ‘Lavender Jewel’, ‘Benardella’s Pearl’, ‘Gold Hnney’, ‘Holy Toledo’, a stack of Parade Roses (like ‘Alicante’), ‘Si’, ‘Antique Rose’, ‘Nozomi’, ‘Jean Kenneally’, ‘Softee’, ‘The Fairy’, ‘Seafoam’, ‘Heidesomer’… a few unknown ones and probably some I can’t remember…

Only a few worth using though…

  • something that looks like ‘Baby Faraux’.

Simon, thanks, and of course I will let you know if I come across ‘Joycie’, ‘Teddy Bear’, or ‘Dresden Doll’…

As you probably already know, some minis are being sold as budded plants onto clonal rootstock in this country. This worries me, as there is every reason to suspect that lazy growers are budding their initial budwoods onto clonal rootstock, then using this budded plant as the source of their production (either cuttings or budded minis). Sad!

Ummm… I don’t see the issue with this… apart from the risk of virus (which, IMO, is stupid to find in minis when they usually grow so well on their own roots). The biggest rose nurseries in Australia will supply most their (limited) range of minis on understocks and cuttings revert back to the ‘native state’ quickly. IMO it’s ridiculous to see minis budded onto vigorous rootstocks so they are pushed along so hard they develop branches as thick and strong as standard sized roses… so I too will take my winter prunings and strike (if they seem to be RMV-free) them and then discard the grafted plant because they look so much more natural. The classic examples are Frank Benardella’s minis we can get here… they are nearly all available only as grafted roses and have branches as thick as my thumbs… they grow so much better on their own roots and make much more beautiful plants… my ‘Figurine’ has just started flowering today and it is such a beautiful rose… but the plant looks unbalanced because it is on ‘Dr Huey’… I wonder if someone should cross something like ‘Rouletii’ with multiflora to try and make a miniature rootstock…

I don’t see the issue with this<<<<<

Yep, I was hinting at virus issues…budding minis is utter nonsense for many reasons, as you say Simon.

“someone should cross something like ‘Rouletii’ with multiflora to try and make a miniature rootstock”

Ralph Moore did that when he created ‘Pink Clouds’.

Great rootstock for many but a poor doer for me in the desert.

It’s still used as understock for mini tree roses.

See link


There you go :slight_smile: Thanks Robert.

George… I’m going to liberate some of those ‘Fortuniana’ cuttings today… they seem to be doing nicely.

well done, Simon!

Joycie, Rise ‘N’ Shine, Apricot Twist, Magic Dragon, Golden Angel, Hoot Owl, Sheri Anne, Avandel, Orange Honey, Suntan Beauty, Cal Poly, Fairy Moss, Iced Tea, Lavender Delight, Lemon Delight, Loving Touch, and Work of Art all set seed readily and produce lots of seed.


Oh what a great list!

Your a champ Paul, thanks!

I might be able to source budwood for ‘Joycie’ to make a plant for my breeding work.

BUT…I just realised the details of the US patent for ‘Joycie’ cannot be accessed on HMF for some strange reason. All I can access on HMF is:

United States - Patent No: PP 7,055 on 14 Nov 1989

Application on 3 Oct 1988<<<<<<

Is anyone here able to access the patent and tell me anything about patent status in Australia?

I wont be purchasing budwood if it is still under patent here.

HMF is not the only source.