Hi Peter, you are so helpful in showing me this.
How many years have to elapse before a patent such as this expires?
Also, is this a world-wide patent or just for the US?
I also just found this Australian website that I am going to utilise if I am ever unsure about plant royalties of any cultivar, for where I live.
George:
The US Patent Office site is located in the link below. You can enter the registration name, plant name or patent number. If you use the patent number for a plant start with PP then the number. For Cal Poly you would use PP8453. The registration name would be entered as morpoly. Either should work.
The application date for the patent appears as October 3 on the U.S patent.
Does this mean that the U.S patent has expired, anyone?
CORRECTION… above message for ‘Joycie’ is meant to read-
U.S Patenet filed on October 3, 1988. Does this mean that the U.S patent has expired, anyone?<<<<<
If I understand this business correctly, patents granted before 1995 were good for 17 years from their effective date. Patents requested 1995 and later are good for 20 years after the date when the patent is filed for, as long as the patent is maintained.
Thanks Peter.
I have also emailed the Australian authority that deals with our parallel plant patent system (‘plant breeders rights’), to check on the status of ‘Joycie’ here…after all who knows it may have been PBR-listed here some time after 1988 when the patent was filed in the U.S. This could make it a no-no to propagate here currently, without relevant licence…I await their reply.
Hopefully in the mean time I can find a nursey offering it for sale as plant, so I can just get on with breeding from that!
George… see the link below… it’s a searchable PBR database for Australia. If it’s not there (and ‘Joycie’ isn’t) it hasn’t got one.
Hey Simon!
Thanks, but I already tried this database search last night, and it gave me some false negatives. It showed varietals that are known to be currently PBR as not being PBR. Maybe I didn’t use the function properly, but it worreid me enough to make me email them, asking for them to search on my behalf.
I imagine they can come up with the answer pretty soon.
Like what? Try the registered name (i.e. MORjoyc). Sometimes this is all they are listed under on the PBR database.
I tried all of that with ‘ebb tide’, and it gave me a negative. So I don’t trust it.
‘Ebb Tide’ is a new, 2009, release and so may not be listed yet. ‘Joycie’ has been around since 1989 so has had enough time to be listed.
Hi Simon,
I can’t get budwood for Joycie after all!!
The budwood supplier tells me their plant was pulled out, as have others on their ‘available’ list… they have not updated their database to what is currently available…alas!
The only minis I have/can get that are good seed setters are: Sheri Anne(as budwood), Rise n Shine, Orange Honey, and Fairy Moss…
Can anyone tell me if any of these 4 minis are diploid?
George:
I don’t know if you have looked through Paul Barden’s web site and the information that he has there about breeding minis. Jim Sproul also put together some great information. The photography on both sites is great as well. You can almost smell the roses.
Paul put together a bunch of information Mr. Moore wrote over his lifetime and it’s wonderful. Mr. Moore wrote about all types of roses. They make a great read for long, wet Oregon nights.
Here are the links:
Yes Jeff, I can now say that I have studied Paul’s website top to bottom and I intend to read it again and again until it all digests properly in my mind. It is superb reading for the likes of us.
Hi George,
You asked if any of: Sheri Anne(as budwood), Rise n Shine, Orange Honey, and Fairy Moss are diploid.
The first three I confirmed at tetraploid. ‘Sheri Anne’ is a part of a study Paul Barden and I worked on a few years back. http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/bracteatagenes.html
I don’t know about the ploidy of ‘Fairy Moss’. I’ve had success crossing diploid polyanthas with tetraploid minis to generate some triploid hybrids and also triploid minis with diploid polyanthas and getting some diploid offspring. There should be some with enough fertility along the way to hopefully get past some fertility barriers and get what you are looking for.
David
I strongly suspect Fairy Moss is a tetraploid.
OK thanks David and thanks Paul. Great information from you both, as usual.
Too bad you cant get Party Girl down in AUS/NZ. It combines the better attributes of Rise n Shine and Sheri Anne. I have read that it is an excellent breeder, and I know it has been used a ton in making modern miniatures. It was one of the few older minis from the 70s and 80s, the others probably being Scarlet Moss and Dee Bennett, that I would tolerate in my garden.
Then again, it wasnt until I met Irresistable did a new definition of mini came into my head (perfect form, blood thirsty thorns, massive blackspot and 4’ of non-stop pruning…weird rose!). Nothing about that rose, and many oses after its time, were very “miniature” =/