2010 Germinations

I’m running about 2 months behind this year. I took 1/4 of my seeds out of the fridge 10 days ago, and these crosses are now germinating:

Apricot Twist X (Playboy X Scentimental)

Apricot Twist X Armada

Apricot Twist X Fabulous!

Apricot Twist X Soeur Therese

Armada X (Joycie X Lila Banks)

Armada X Apricot Twist

Armada X Distant Drums

Ebb Tide X Julia Child

Ebb Tide X Purple Passion

Ebb Tide X R. foetida bicolor

Fabulous! X Apricot Twist

Fabulous! X Fakir’s Delight

Fabulous! X Lila Banks

Fabulous! X Out of the Night

Fabulous! X Star Magic

Golden Angel X Golden Angel

Halo Glory X Lilac Charm

Jeanne d’Arc (1848) X Comtesse du Cayla

Jeanne d’Arc (1848) X Gilbert Nabonnand

Jeanne d’Arc (1848) X Plaisanterie

Midnight Blue X (Lilac Charm X Purple Heart)

Midnight Blue X Anytime

Orangeade X R. bracteata

Verbena X Comtesse du Cayla

Verbena X Duchesse de Brabant

Verbena X Mutabilis

Verbena X William Allen Richardson

‘Verbena’ is a seedling I found growing in a potted verbena. It resembles R. multiflora nana.

Those are some great crosses Jim. I look forward to hearing how they work out.

I’ve worked quite a bit with some of the parents you have listed.

Jim, I am interested in the 'Golden Angel’x self cross…are you able to share what you are hoping for in that cross?

Robert, which of these parents have you worked with? How did the seedlings turn out?

George, Golden Angel is a triploid. Golden Angel selfs should be a mixture of diploids, triploids, and tetraploids. I’m hoping for diploid seedlings with Golden Angel’s good qualities. Of course, I won’t discard any good seedlings regardless of their ploidy.

Oh right!

I can see two good reasons for Jim to try it. First, what he already explained. But, also, because crossing a yellow x yellow would aid in the yellow’s genetic permanence. Yellows are a pain to breed for because of the lack of this.

That’s interesting too, Jadae.

I would think considering Golden Angels ancestery that there is a chance on improving on the disease resistance even though it is already quite disease resistant in places.


I’ve only done one cross, really–

the others I’ve given away…

I have several Livin’ Easy X Persian Sunset, a good many disease prone.

Jim, very interesting crosses. I will be especially interested in hearing how ‘Fabulous!’ X ‘Fakir’s Delight’ , and ‘Midnight Blue’ X ‘Anytime’ do. They sound like great combinations!

Jim Sproul

More crosses have begun to germinate:

(Mons. Tillier X Mutabilis) X Jeanne d’Arc (1848)

Apricot Twist X (Magenta X Lilac Charm)

Apricot Twist X Julia Child

Apricot Twist X Royal Sunset

Jeanne d’Arc (1848) X ((The Gift X unknown) X Lyda Rose)

Orangeade X Star Magic

Out of the Night X Moondance


Have you tried ‘Julia Child’ as a seed parent, also?

Jim, I used ‘Armada’ quite a bit. It’s very easy to work with but rarely gives saturated colors. It mostly produces pinks and whites as seed parent. Most seedlings are healthy.

I’m getting some interesting seedlings out of ‘Apricot Twist’. Last year was the first year I tried it, pollen only. It hasn’t set hips for me here yet.

‘Distant Drums’ generally produces weak disease prone seedlings. I only have one seedling I kept.

‘Midnight Blue’ is a good parent so far.

I don’t care for ‘Orangeade’ as a parent for anything. There are too many better choices.

I have several seedling right now using ‘Out of the Night’ as seed parent. Most are prone to mildew.

‘Royal Sunset’ requires a lot of effort to get anything worth keeping.

‘William Allen Richardson’ is easy for pollen. Should be used more.

‘Mutabilis’ works for pollen but generally gives washed out colors.

‘Star Magic’ works for pollen but you will get a broad range of offspring. Some will be once flowering. Some will give little indication of hybridity. Many are disease prone. Once in awhile it produces a keeper.

‘Julia Child’ is fertile both ways but more productive as pollen parent.

I like the idea of trying to get a diploid yellow from ‘Golden Angel’.

I’ve got several new diploid hybrids coming along. A number were culled early for mildew. In general they are weaker and slower to develop.

I had ‘Jeanne D’Arc’ here for a time. It was a nice rose, vigorous but too prickly and lacked novelty for me. I had too many white roses already. What are you hoping to accomplish with it?

Thanks, Robert

Jim, what does your, (Mons. Tillier X Mutabilis), seedling look like?

I’d put ‘William Allen Richardson’ on it.

Speaking of ‘Midnight Blue’ I now have 70 seedlings from ‘Midnight Blue’ X ‘Veilchenblau’! I’m pleased with the sample size on this one.

I don’t think I know what 'Apricot Twist’s ploidy is. It comes from ‘Sequoia Gold’ (4X) and ‘Golden Angel’ (3X), so it could be almost anything.

“‘Distant Drums’ generally produces weak disease prone seedlings. I only have one seedling I kept.”

My experience as well: almost always weak seedlings that grow for a while and then die, or mildew badly. I have kept only one: a mauve seedling out of ‘Lilian Austin’ which is quite vigorous, healthy and fragrant.

Paul, I guess you know ‘Midnight Blue’ descends from ‘Velichenblau’ through ‘Sweet Chariot’?

What was your goal with the cross?

I like ‘Apricot Twist’. The blossoms can be quite large for a mini. You have to use it with a mildew resistant seed parent or there will be problems.


Yes, I knew about that relationship, and the cross was done to see what might be triggered by going back to its ancestor. I like the idea of a darker colored, remontant ‘Veilchenblau’, but that probably won’t happen.

George, I have used Julia Child as a seed parent and gotten some nice seedlings from it. As Robert said, it is more productive as a pollen parent.

Robert, My Mons. Tillier X Mutabilis seedling is nearly a dead ringer for Mutabilis, but is much more fertile. I like the idea of crossing it with William Allen Richardson. Perhaps that cross would give a noisette that changes color like Mutabilis. William Allen Richardson doesn’t bloom as much as I would like. Maybe it isn’t warm enough for it here.

Jeanne d’Arc (the noisette from 1848) is one of the few roses that is perfectly healthy here. It blooms prolifically and has a strong musk fragrance. This is the first year I’ve used it, so I don’t yet know how well it will pass those characteristics to its seedlings.

There have been at least seven different roses named for Jeanne d’Arc:

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/plants.php?searchNmTyp=1&searchNm=Jeanne+d%27Arc&rid=5528&sbSearch=SEARCH&tab=1

Jim and Robert, thanks for the ‘Julia Child’ information. Too bad it is not available here.