2009 breeding spreadsheet (incomplete)

This is a partial list of crosses I have cataloged so far. I will repost the completed document when I finish it.

This URL would not link to the post, for whatever reason.


Great stuff Paul. You’re doing some very innovative work.

I look forward to seeing and hearing more about what comes of it.

Reve d’Or with Joycie, Arthur Bell and Golden Angel - looks like you are after pumping up the yellow, a strategy that should work.

I see also you’ve crossed one of your Fortune seedlings with June Laver, an intriguing departure from the norm. What became of the other Fortune seedlings you blogged about last spring?

Knowing that you do things in bulk compared to what I do that is a lot of seeds you have even with the list being small. I see you are using Apricot Twist as a seed parent I was wondering if it was seed fertile. I have tried it as a pollen parent this past year with some luck but not much. Most of my plant are young a do not want to grow seeds but grow into larger plants I think.

This is the first year with roses most of my seed is coming from my own crosses and not from open pollinated seed or donated seed. Even if I get worthless seedlings I am so excited because it gets me something to really judge off of and plan new crosses from instead of totally guessing and seeing what has worked for others.

I like the name Joycieberry is that kim rupert’s Joycie X Basye’s Blueberry?

Yes, “Joycieberry” is what we’ve been calling Kim’s Joycie X Basye’s Blueberry hybrid.

Below is a URL for an html version of the updated spreadsheet. I have a few more crosses to collect today and will finish this document over the weekend. Some of the code seedlings can be found on HMF under those numbers if you care to look them up.


Link: spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t7nIB1ozP4Pr9e86ugk319A&output=html

Nice to see you’re doing lots of work with species, Paul. Still a lot of good genes out there!

I thinnk it’s cool to see work with ‘Scabrosa’ :slight_smile:


Curiously, ‘Scabrosa’ (considered to be a selection of R. rugosa rubra) set seed on most everything I put it on this year. This is the first time I have attempted a wide range of crosses using it and I’m astonished how much seed I got from these efforts. Most of the crosses involved diploid seed bearers in order to preserve the diploid line, but I’m not one to avoid making a cross with mismatched gene counts either, since my experience shows that anything can happen (and often does) and fertility is affected by many factors, not just ploidy mismatches. In fact, some of the most fertile seed and pollen bearers I employ are known triploids.

I have about 25 more crosses to add to this spreadsheet and will publish the results sometime Sunday.


Yes… I love working withy ‘Scabrosa’ because it yields so much seed and doesn’t seem to like its own pollen at all. The pollen that failed for me on ‘Scabrosa’ last year was polyantha pollen and wichurana pollen. This year I have not been so lucky… I put ‘Golden Chersonese’ on it and ‘Safrano’ and they both failed… Hva esince piled on more pollen of about 10 different minis and some purple shrubs so will kee my fingers crossed this works. I have a handful of really nice seedlings of ‘Scabrosa’ x ‘Gold Coin’ and ‘Scabrosa’ x ‘Magic Carrousel’ that are starting to develop nicely rugose leaves and are staying miniature. Speaking of which… I’m off to put some more pollen on it and ‘Ann Endt’. I haven’t tried using it as a pollen parent though because the seeds germinate just so easily… will have to try this.

Hi Paul, I’m glad you still have the Gallica seedling. I’d wished I could have done more to explore it, but there was just too much with too little and no time nor energy. Do you have both of them? There was a single one with two rows of petals and one quite a bit more double. Thanks. Kim


You sent me only one; the more double one. Is mine the only specimen of it? If so, I better propagate it next Spring!

Wow - what amazing work you have going on Paul

OK, thanks, Paul. Yes, yours is the only one around. If you want to preserve it, get to propagating it. I no longer have either one.

I just ran across yours and Robert’s comments on Help Me Find about Joyberry, and Robert’s suggestion it may be interesting to use it with mosses. How about Joyberry with the Gallica seedling?

“How about Joyberry with the Gallica seedling?”

I’ll consider that for 2010!

I’ll also propagate your Gallica seedling this year and if you want, I’ll get it back to you or share it with anyone who wants it, its up to you.

PS: you just might persuade me to try using Candleflame pollen on something this year, you know…


“Joyberry” was a very easy pollen parent. I wish it passed along smoothness better.

I’m finding much of the stuff coming out of the smooth Basye hybrids have weak peduncles, especially as blossom size increases.

Since I wasn’t getting smoothness out of it I decided among others things I would try to fix the peduncles by marrying it to something with strong stems.

See link.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.46895&tab=1

Thank you Paul. I think I would like to have one if you get around to it, please? Of course, feel free to share it with anyone who wants to play with it. It’s the one listed on Help Me Find. 'Sequoia Ruby X Tuscany Superb' Rose I found both this one and the single interesting, but didn’t have anywhere nor any time to maintain them. I’m glad you still have it.

I think you SHOULD do something with Candleflame! With what it has behind it, there is no telling what could come from it. Put it on Mutabilis, or hit it with some out of control thing to “tame” it. I wish I still had Montecito to boink with it. How about Nessie? She needs some control! I need to get that one back from Burling.

I think it would be very interesting to put Candleflame pollen on the Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana seedlings, but I use them with everything. Thankfully, the indigenous personnel took out half of my hips before I got to them or I would have burned out again and not gotten any of them planted. I just wish they’d taken the less interesting things. I had several hips forming on Mutabilis with (hopefully) Banksia Lutescens pollen on them. I’d hit that with 1-72-1 and a host of other things, too. Unfortunately, it’s too close to where the blamed ground squirrels came through the fence from next door, before I “domesticated” them with $80 of Wiltco Ground Squirrel Bait! Theiving varmints!

What I did manage to salvage and get planted is below. I included some of the more interesting things from last year which I’ve maintained. I apologize for the columns not lining up correctly. I’m sure there is an easy fix but at this hour, it escapes me. And, for the life of me, I don’t remember what “GD” is. The only short hand not remembered. The 1-72-1 X Midnight Blue created three seedlings. All three are totally without any sort of prickles, all three are totally disease free in their first year of life in two different climates and none of the three have flowered yet. There is “The Monster”, all five feet of it, with many climbing canes. There is the intermediate one which is a bush of about 18" and the “Runt” which is not three inches tall and quite weak. As long as it survives, I want to watch to see what it will do. I’d hoped for lack of prickles and got it. I’d hoped the color would be intensely saturated, either yellow or purple, but they’ve not seemed to express any interest in flowering so far.

This year, I held nothing in the refrigerator, just kept them in the garage and we had no freezes in Encino. Many sprouted in the bags and jars waiting to be planted. Very many are already up and on their second and third sets of leaves. Very odd year. Kim


(Anytime X Eglantyne) X Verschuren

(April Moon X MORcrest) X (April Moon X MORcrest) ly

(Carlin’s Rhythm X Home Run) X Grandmother’s Hat

(Country Dancer X Home Run) X Cinneraire

(Lilac Charm X Grey Pearl) X Midas Touch

(Riverbanks X Lynnie) X 1-72-1

0-47-19 X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana) ly

0-47-19 X Vintage Visalia

0-47-19 X Julia Child

0-47-19 X Pride of Oakland

1-72-1 X Midnight Blue ly

1-72-1 X Mutabilis

1-72-1 X Magseed

1-72-1 X My Stars

1-72-1 X Gold Marie

1-72-1 X (Lilac Charm X Grey Pearl)

1-72-1 X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana)

Adelaid Hoodless X Maytime

Adelaid Hoodless X Cinneraire

Adelaid Hoodless X Tom Thumb

Adelaid Hoodless X Magic Wand

Anytime X Magic Wand

Baby Faurax X Kim Rupert

Baby Faurax X Baby Faurax

Belle Story X Basye’s Blueberry

Bride’s White X Gourmet Pheasant

Carlin’s Rhythm X (Lilac Charm X Grey Pearl)

Carol Nichole Miller X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana) ly

Cherry Parfait X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana) ly

Distant Drums X Distant Drums

Erfurt X Grandmother’s Hat

Flower Girl X Flower Girl

Glad Tidings X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana) ly

Gold Badge X R. Fedtschenkoana

Graham Thomas X (Lilac Charm X Grey Pearl)

Graham Thomas X Sunnyside Up

Graham Thomas X Glad Tidings

Graham Thomas X Tom Thumb

Graham Thomas X Lilac Charm

Graham Thomas X Grandmother’s Hat

Graham Thomas X Basye’s Blueberry

Graham Thomas X 1-72-1

Greensleeves X Grandmother’s Hat

Greensleeves X 0-47-19 ly

Halo Glory X Basye’s Blueberry

Heritage X (Golden Angel X R. Californica nana)

Heritage X (Lilac Charm X Grey Pearl)

Indian Love Call X 1-72-1

Inner Wheel X Magic Wand

Irish Fireflame X Mutabilis

Kim Rupert X Kim Rupert

Leonie Lamesch X Leonie Lamesch

Lilac Charm X Wild Dancer

LOATORSC X Mutabilis

Lucetta X Little Butterfly

Lynnie X Sunny Today

Lynnie X Julia Child

Lynnie X Gold Marie

Lynnie X GD

Lynnie X Sevillana

Lynnie X Wild Dancer

Lynnie X Mutabilis

Lynnie X Cinneraire

Lynnie X Memorial Day

Lynnie X Lordly Oberon

Marie Pavie X Mutabilis

Mary Rose X Graham Thomas

Mary Rose X My Stars

Mary Rose X Wild Dancer

Mary Rose X Little Butterfly

Maytime X Cinneraire

Maytime X R. Fedtschenkoana

MORoserug X Sunnyside Up

Mr. Lincoln X Mutabilis

Mutabilis X Sunnyside Up

Mutabilis X Grandmother’s Hat

Mutabilis X Sevillana

My Stars X Perdita

My Stars X (Rose Gilardi X Rugosa Magnifica)

My Stars X R. Fedtschenkoana

Old Master X (Rose Gilardi X Rugosa Magnifica)

Old Master X Little Butterfly

Orangeade X Lilac Charm

Out of Yesteryear X Cinneraire

Paloma Blanca X Little Butterfly

Picasso X Torch of Liberty

Pink Gate X Magic Wand

Pink Gate X Lordly Oberon

Pink Gate X 0-47-19

Pink Gate X (Anytime X Eglantyne)

Pink Gate X Sally Holmes

Pink Gate X Tamora

Pookah X Pookah

Pretty Jessica X Little Butterfly

Priscilla Burton X Grandmother’s Hat

Priscilla Burton X Magic Wand

Purpurea (China) X Midnight Blue

Purpurea (China) X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana)

Queen Elizabeth X (Golden Angel X R. Californica nana)

Queen Elizabeth X My Stars

Queen Elizabeth X Basye’s Blueberry

Rayon Butterflies X (Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana) ly

Rosy Purple X Grandmother’s Hat

Rosy Purple X Cinneraire

Rosy Purple X Mutabilis

Rugelda X Gourmet Pheasant

Rugelda X Little Butterfly

Rugelda X Sean’s Mauve

Sharifa Asma X (Golden Angel X R. Californica nana)

Sharifa Asma X Little Butterfly

Sharifa Asma X (Joycie X Basye’s Blueberry)

Sharifa Asma X Sally Holmes

Sharifa Asma X 1-72-1

Sharifa Asma X Lilac Charm

STW-1 X Wild Dancer

STW-1 X Mutabilis

Sunburn X Verschuren

Tom Thumb X Tom Thumb

Too Cute X Julia Child

Too Cute X GD

Torch of Liberty X Lordly Oberon

Torch of Liberty X Little Butterfly

Torch of Liberty X Midnight Blue

Torch of Liberty X Purpurea (China)

Torch of Liberty X Grandmother’s Hat

Torch of Liberty X Old Master

Torch of Liberty X My Stars

Torch of Liberty X Adelaide Hoodless

Torch of Liberty X English Elegance

Trumpeter X Midnight Blue

Verdun X Verdun

Wild Dancer X Wild Dancer

Yellow Magic X Yellow Magic

Wow, interesting stuff Kim.

You’re mixing ploidies like crazy.

You probably know but here are the code names for some of those crosses. I mention it because this is the way they will be recorded at HMF.

(Carlin’s Rhythm X Home Run) = CARXHOR (CARHOR)

(Country Dancer X Home Run) = CDXHOR (CDHOR)

(Lilac Charm X Grey Pearl) = LCGP4 (Tunningley)

(Riverbanks X Lynnie) = RBXLYN (RBLYN)


Thank you, Robert. Why not mix ploidies? Ralph did it for 80 years and it often works. 0-47-19 and Softee are triploid and they are fertile as all get out. Softlegs is triploid and it’s fertile. Thank you for posting the info on the seedlings you passed on and which screamed for pollen. It’s going to be interesting seeing what they do. Many are already germinating. Looking at all the things coming up, I honestly am glad the rodents got half of them before I harvested them.

Kim, yes, Mr. Moore mixed ploidies but I believe he did it not out of knowledge of what he was doing. He worked by observation and intuition, but largely from trial and error.

We have many more tools at our disposal.

I’ve got many seedlings out of mixed ploidy pairings. One of my best is a triploid x triploid pairing.

Strangely vigor is excellent. WEIRD!!


I sent root tips of 0-47-19 to David Zlesak a few years ago so he could do a root tip squash to determine its ploidy, and it was found to be a diploid. It should be a triploid based on its breeding, but it isn’t. Just thought you oughtta know :slight_smile: