Topaz Jewel (Moore) and Agnes have the real Rugosa look still in them. The others already have that “modern look”.
Agnes isn’t all that beautifull in my opinion. Topaz Jewel is a real gem. Moore must be a genious, how he managed in creating this unique Rugosa.
I recently was looking for Golden Angel here in Europe. Because I think this could be a rose that unlocks certain traits in hybrid species roses (that cling on to their wild habits). Golden Angel is one of the parents of Topaz Jewel.
I’m looking into acquiring this rose. I’d very much like to experiment with other colors in Rugosa roses. Wouldn’t that be a challenge Considering that there is but one good (my humble opinion) real Rugosa with another color than (dark) pink or white. There is still much to be done, unlike in other classes of roses where you’d get hundreds of new crosses every year that look very similar to other previously made roses. Even those with exciting “new” colors.
I was curious about other opinions or thoughts on the matter.
This is definitely a delightful goal worth pursuing !
I took just a quick look for you after ‘Golden Angel’ and it seems so, that in Europe ‘Golden Angel’ is nowhere availabe. HMF also does not offer a fitting european nursery. Only in the UK, Peter Beales Roses and Rose 'Golden Angel' - PAT - Cowell's Garden Centre | Woolsington has this rose in stock. Maybe you are lucky and can find a more suitable source for you.
The Golden Angel in UK is a similar patio rose by Poulsen unfortunately. I’d love to acquire it some day. But for now I’ll settle with Topaz Jewel and also Dresden Doll. Another mossed miniature by Moore which is easily available here in Belgium.
Hopefully it has similar qualities as Golden Angel.
I think Vanguard also deserves a place on this list. Not sure where to find that one but she sure is pretty, although perhaps too modern looking if you’re after a real rugosa look.
And also among the unusual colors there’s the hybrid rugosa/hulthemia Nigel Hawthorne, available in the EU via Loubert. I have him coming this month and look forward to him, although he’s apparently very sterile and a once bloomer, he’s also very small so at least he won’t take up too much room in my garden. Vanguard on HMF
Well, I see the ‘Basye’s Purple Rose’ not as a original R.rugosa. The feel of the leaves and the narrow leaflets are little more like R.foliolosa. It is a vigorous grower, but not an extremely bloomer. For those who expect a sea of blossoms, this rose is not the right choice. Hips are rarely produced and viable pollen is rather sparsely available. Unfortunately this year no fertilization with BPR as seed parent has been successful for me. They all aborted, maybe caused through heat and drought. But I’m hopeful, that some other crosses of this year with BPR as pollen parent will result into one or the other interesting seedling. I appreciate this rarity very much. The dark flowers are extraordinary in beauty and uniqueness as well as the entire rose shrub.
Many thanks for this note ! Nigel Hawthorne is quite a very attractive hybrid. I had also toyed with the idea of getting these rose for further breeding some weeks ago. But I have diligently researched before a purchase in our forum. Nigel Hawthorne could give problems with sterilty and mildew in some climates. That’s why I initially rejected my proposal.
I wish it was possible to get you a ‘Golden Angel’. I wish I could send you cuttings. There are lots of restrictions sending roses to Europe from the US due to Xylella. I was inspired too by ‘Topaz Jewel’ and when I learned TJ is diploid, I acquired GA and counted its chromosomes too. It is triploid and relatively fertile even as a female. GA I think is a great bridge with lots of other roses. I have hybrids of GA with polyanthas that are diploid (more cream than yellow though). Hopefully someday you can get your hands on GA. Lemon Zest is diploid 'Lemon Zest' Rose if you want to work with a diploid yellow modern rose with diploid species. Yellow Ribbons is also diploid, one of its parents (its maternal parent Peachy Cream is triploid). Yellow Ribbons has been very black spot prone and kind of weak for me and I’ve lost the plant. Lemon Zest sets some op hips and is much healthier. I have struggled generating hybrids of Lemon Zest with other roses and the little I have from it comes from it as a male parent with modern roses. It would be fun to see what it would do if crossed with rugosas. It would be great to combine the black spot resistance of Lemon Zest (likely from its ancestors Baby Love and Flower Carpet Pink) with rugosas.
Vanguard is beautiful. It shows you can create strong hardy roses with Rugosas that have a modern look to them. Key is to find the sweet spot in between Rugosa and modern I guess. Really good example of what beautiful roses can be created with Rugosa.
I hope Topaz Jewel is a great stepping stone to create more of such.
If it only were as easy as putting some plant material in a box and sending it overseas But of course if it would be diseased it could end up killing my collection of roses and maybe much more.
Is Xylella a big thing in the US? I haven’t heard of it before.
On a slight tangent, according to this (which is a different set of results compared to the previous ksn copia results that has been posted on these forums previously)
in the Supplementary Materials, in the xlsx file on tab “table 6”
It’s saying Roseraie de l’Haÿ has the ksn copia gene (unlike the more “pure” rugosa like dagmar hastrup, hansa, scabrosa…sidenote gelbe dagmar hastrup is topaz jewel aka yellow dagmar hastrup in some countries) which may be useful…the HMF “sets few hips” and few seedlings may indicate it’s not the most willing of parents though
(right click, open image in new tab and it’s much bigger)
I’ve never heard of or seen Xylella being a direct issue for roses–I wonder if they have only been identified as a potential carrier of the pathogen, which might then go on to infect other, more vulnerable types of plants. A strain of X. fastidiosa has ravaged olive trees in southern Europe. Here, it is a problem for some species of oak causing a condition called bacterial leaf scorch. Another strain causes the (usually) deadly Pierce’s Disease in the majority of grapes.
A couple of yellow rugosa hybrids from what was known as the “spotless” series (Spotless Gold and Spotless Yellow) were developed in the 1970s by USDA using a colchicine-induced tetraploid R. rugosa, and those would also have been nice to have around and play with. Unfortunately, I believe they are probably now extinct. William Radler used Spotless Gold a little (it’s in the background of Carefree Sunshine).
Personally, I always found Topaz Jewel to have longevity problems when I grew it in Minnesota–lots of odd cane dieback seemingly unrelated to winter temperatures, which usually led to the dwindling and death of the plant within a few years. Maybe it has issues with moisture. It also seemed hopelessly infertile for me, but that could be a matter of numbers. Then again, the descendants listed on HMF don’t give much hope of carrying the yellow into a further generation without some other source (assuming that they are all actually true hybrids).
I actually really like Agnes as a plant once it gets going. The fragrance is wonderful and it is amazingly healthy even here, but it has almost no fertility.
R. rugosa does have the potential to breed amazingly beautiful roses, although not always with all of the other traits that one might desire–consider the case of Conrad Ferdinand Meyer. The flowers can be exquisite, but the plant is incredibly thorny and extremely disease-prone in many areas.
Thank you so much for this link. I’ve seen this article been cited earlier but couldn’t get my hands on it. This link doesn’t always work for me. I’ve gotten hold of the excel file. I’ll go through it on a cold winters day.
I hope I’ll manage to get som offspring of Topaz Jewel. Maybe as a pollinator rather than a seedparent. I’ve had much success with Schneezwerg this year. It has many similarities with Topaz Jewel, maybe they’ll be a match and give some interesting seedlings to do further crossings.
I’ve looked into Spotless Yellow and Spotless Gold. Hadn’t heard of them. First thing I thought was: “wow another cross between a golden miniature and a Rugosa in the lineage”. But I guess there has been made a mistake in HMF for Spotless Yellow as the Goldilocks in it dates to 1998 while Spotless Yellow was created in 1979. The Spotless Gold also has a Goldilocks, but another one from Boerner in 1945. Probably the right one that was also used in Spotless Yellow: 'Goldilocks' Rose
Still it is interesting to know what is possible. Carefree Sunshine is a nice rose.
As for disease resistance… I’ll have to make a couple of thousands and then select the one that ticks all the boxes
Another rugosa hybrid with unusual color I just happened upon while browsing an Italian nursery site:
Hibiscus (Quinto Mansuino, 1981).
This one seems to have lost all rugosa-ness to its foliage, and from the picture, appears prone to blackspot. The crinkled, coral flowers make me wonder if this might be a rugosa combo with mutabilis or something like that.
‘Topaz Jewel’ is worthless as a parent. The “best” rose Ralph ever got from it was ‘Peach Candy’, and that was an unhealthy, sad little thing.
‘Golden Angel’ is indeed a worthy breeder. As David says, it can be a bridge to all kinds of things. Its “a door opener”. Same can be said of ‘Sequoia Ruby’. In fact, ‘Sequoia Ruby’ is hugely underrated, probably because so few have ever used it in breeding. I have never known any other rose capable of producing such a rainbow of offspring as it, no matter what you mate it with. You will get yellows and pinks and purples and burgundys and all manner of pinks and reds, all from one cross. Its also capable of producing a percentage of thornless seedlings. Yes, you should try to mate it with something that has good disease resistance, because it isn’t the best in that regard. If I were to choose just one miniature to breed new work from, I think it would be ‘Sequoia Ruby’. Its another “door opener”.
Come on Paul, first Mme. Hardy, now Topaz Jewel. Please do not make a habit in destroying my high hopes.
I wish we could get Golden Angel here in Europe. Topaz Jewel is the closest we can get. I’ll try my best in getting something more than a sad rose from it. My stubbornness will eventually pay off. ‘Moeilijk gaat ook’ Was it Moore that said: ‘the rose will find a way’?
Thank you for your insights, however hard to bear they may be.
Can you get Cal Poly in Europe? That would be an excellent choice also. What about Rise ‘N’ Shine? That is one of the most frequently used yellow breeders ever created. Both of those roses still have some tricks up their sleeves, in the hands of a thoughtful hybridizer willing to experiment. What about Apricot Twist? Is that available to you? Also capable of breeding some fantastic things.
I bred this rose twelve years ago, using Apricot Twist with the pollen from Suzanne (Hybrid Spinosissima), and I have only recently discovered that it is pollen fertile. This soft yellow rose with matte blue-green foliage is impervious to Blackspot and Mildew! I should have been using it years ago.
As far as I know, Cal Poly, Rise ‘N’ Shine as well as Apricot Twist are not available in Europe.The only two miniatures to reach within Europe of Ralph S. Moore are his discovered Mr. Bluebird and Dresden Doll.
I have already researched several times. Unfortunately, we don’t have a chance here.
But perhaps KarelBvn is able to find a source for himself after all.
Considering that there is but one good (my humble opinion) real Rugosa with another color than (dark) pink or white. There is still much to be done, unlike in other classes of roses where you’d get hundreds of new crosses every year that look very similar to other previously made roses. Even those with exciting “new” colors.
Was it Moore that said: ‘the rose will find a way’?