What else do you breed/hybridize?

General Discussion
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1

I have been intrigued by one of the threads discussing the breeding of animals, fish and other plants. I wonder, how many of us enjoy breeding animals and hybridizing plants other than roses. Have these other pursuits benefited your rose hybridizing?

I will start by saying that our family did breed Satin rabbits when my girls were in 4-H. It was lots of fun and a great learning experience for our two girls each of whom have bred dogs as adults (Pugs and Bassett Hounds).

I also hybridize daylilies. I do not expect to register any lilies, not at $15 per registration, but they are much easier to hybridize than roses and after three years I have a few that I will keep and a few I have named, using song titles. The lilies make nice fill in plants in the flower beds.

So, what else are the members up to? Inquiring minds want to know.

2

While not to the point of actually hybridizing them, I am selecting seedlings of caesalpinia for flower color variations. Having three animals inside the house to maintain and tolerate, I don’t need any more with which to deal out side. Besides, with this climate, coyotes, snakes, etc., that’s all I would need to have to worry about. It’s difficult enough to do battle with the moles, gophers, rabbits and squirrels without having to worry about the well being of MORE animals.

3

Well, how about what I want to hybridize? I’m a prolific dreamer…but when I can I will try to bring those dreams to reality.

Chokecherries. We sell Red Leaf Chokecherry, a horrible tree primarily because of its susceptibility to a disease called black knot. But it is the only maroon leafed tree save a flowering crab or two that is hardy here in Zone 3. We also have a selection of the native chokecherry that we call Johnson. It was selected for having larger, less astringent fruit. When growing next to 3 Red Leaf Chokecherry, the red leafs were covered with black knot and the Johnson, which is almost as mature, only showed a little black knot for the first time this year. One other difference is that we can’t root Johnson in the mist bed because it defoliates prematurely. Red Leaf works in the mist bed.

So anyways, I’ve read that chokecherries are self-incompatible, so this year we netted the Johnson. We will plant the seeds and see if any develop red leaves, while also selecting for horizontal resistance to whatever leaf disease gets Johnson.

To be continued…gotta go back to work.

4

Hot chilli peppers over the last 6 years or so, just by OP seed…doing this I somehow managed to get vastly increased fruits by selecting out every year for larger fruits. Bit of a no-brainer, however I like hot chilly pepper in some foods! Purely just for fun, not a serious pursuit.

5

I also hybridize daylilies. Sticking to diploids. Want to explore the species more. Want to breed really tall daylilies with tons of flowers to a stalk. Care less about indivual flowers but over look of the scape.

I am starting to breed all the vegeables I grow. But more selecting then crossing. Except a few cases and these crosses ultametly become op varieties in the end.

My favorite plant is four o’clocks and I am collecting different species and planning to cross them to see what comes about.

Pretty much anything I grow I dabble in. But only roses are the real focus. They are more intereasting genetically and difficult than many plants. And that is interesting. I loss interest when things are too easy.

6

Tree peonies. These things require

4 or 5 years to produce first bloom.

But they are healthy, hardy, attractive plants

with huge elegant blooms.

7

Wow, what a divergent group we have.

@ Kim, are those plants also called Pride of Barbados? I have been thinking of putting a couple of those in pots by front window, maybe lining the pots with bubble wrap because of the heat in that spot.

@Joe, we do try to push the envelope with our zones don’t we. Two of mine are lilacs and rhubarb. Supposedly there are lilacs out there that will tolerate Zone 8 heat but they are not easy to find. Just love the scent of lilacs, all of my scented candles are lilac. Rhubarb is a favorite pie filling and one of the Extension Agents in a neighboring county has developed a method of growing it as an annual from seed. I have had some success, enough for one or two pies, worth the effort for me.

@George, DH and I have to have our peppers too. Jalapeno and chilipetin peppers that we heat up in vinegar for pepper sauce on greens. The peppers are prolific this year, the secret is mushroom compost. We are getting another pickup load this fall for the vegetable garden, it’s great stuff. I am thinking of mixing a bit of it in the potting soil for the rose cuttings I am read to pot up.

@Adam, I like your idea of a “landscape type” of daylily. I am a sucker for a pretty face with lots of different colors and ruffles. Are you familiar with polytepals. I have one I hybridized in 2009 that has thrown polytepal blooms two years in a row. I will be experimenting with it in the future.

@David, I love peonies, if I lived where they would grow I would be hybridizing them also. I saw my first one blooming about 10 years ago on a trip to Iowa in the spring. Made my DH stop in front of yards so I could take pictures of them. Those yankees must have thought this Texan was nuts.

8

Yes Joan, “Pride of Barbados” is one name, “Mexican Bird of Paradise” is another. I sew them just like the rose seed, in the same boxes and soil and they come up like weeds. The same with the native Pavonia and Senna. I purloined seed from Hesperaloe and some Cassias from a nursery and they’re reacting similarly. I don’t know how suitable they’d be for pots because they grow large, quickly. Want some seed? A few weeks after germination, they went into gallons where they languished for their first year because I didn’t know where I would put them. I finally settled on spotting them between the dead stumps from the sixty year old oleander which hold the soil in an erosion area. Oleander Leaf Scorch took them out and the stumps will remain there for another eon. The soil is too dry for them to actually decompose and their alleopathetic qualities don’t seem to inhibit the caesalpinia one bit. Most of mine are the Mexicana. It’s yellow but there are supposed hybrids which show an orange tint to the buds with some orange in the flower. I’ve only recently obtained a gilliesii which is used in landscaping all over. Next, I want the pulcherima as it’s the most colorful, but also the one requiring more “attention” in this climate, from what they tell me. Philip educated me there is a pink one, which I really do NEED!

The Cacalaco honestly does resemble a rose bush with its perfect, rose-like prickles. I don’t know if it will ever flower because it was such a thickly barked, stunted plant, it’s gone into a bonsai pot to be tortured. I’d feared they might be attacked by the rodents, but a gentleman in Texas from GW shared with me his have never been molested, so I’ve put them out and they are fine. In this poor, loose, extremely dry soil, the Mexicana seedlings flower literally twelve months of the year and begin flowering at about a foot tall. A year in the ground with weekly watering by hose, several are nearly seven feet high and most develop multiple trunks, like a large, multi trunk shrub. Seeds are easy to collect and send. I can even keep the Mexicana and the hybrid Mexicana separate if you’d like. Evidently, they require a pollinator we don’t have, or my situation inhibits the pollinator as the ‘beans’ aren’t full of seed, but usually contain a few. I know they germinate. I can also send seed from Senna as it’s full of beans right now.

As for the lilacs, below are the comparisons between Austin, Visalia and here (Encino), comparing ave. July heat; ave. Jan cold; rain; sunny days; etc. If a lilac was bred in Visalia and does well in Encino, does it seem like something worth trying in Austin? I have ONE, little rooted piece of the lilac which has flowered from October until now. I wrote of them on my blog, where I wrapped four and one has rooted. The other three appear exactly as they did in January when I wrapped them, but show no roots yet. Want the rooted one? Kim

Climate Austin, TX United States

Rainfall (in.) 33.4 36.5

Snowfall (in.) 1 25

Precipitation Days 83 100

Sunny Days 228 205

Avg. July High 95 86.5

Avg. Jan. Low 39.7 20.5

Comfort Index (higher=better) 22 44

UV Index 6 4.3

Elevation ft. 531 1,060

Climate Visalia, CA United States

Rainfall (in.) 10.2 36.5

Snowfall (in.) 0 25

Precipitation Days 40 100

Sunny Days 267 205

Avg. July High 97 86.5

Avg. Jan. Low 37.2 20.5

Comfort Index (higher=better) 56 44

UV Index 5.7 4.3

Elevation ft. 335 1,060

Climate Encino, CA United States

Rainfall (in.) 15.9 36.5

Snowfall (in.) 0.2 25

Precipitation Days 28 100

Sunny Days 281 205

Avg. July High 93 86.5

Avg. Jan. Low 43.2 20.5

Comfort Index (higher=better) 45 44

UV Index 6.2 4.3

Elevation ft. 722 1,060

9

It seems like Blue Skies lilac would be a good bet to cross with Bloomerang to create everblooming lilacs. The low chill requirement, as evidenced by Kim’s seedlings, might be synergistic with reblooming.

I want to cross Wapsinicon Peach tomato, a fuzzy peach colored tomato, with the new Indigo Rose Tomato, which has shiny purple-black fruit. I need to look up how to cross-pollinate tomatoes.

Speaking of daylilies, I bought four expensive daylilies from a hybridizers in Florida. I’m assuming they wouldn’t be hardy here, but the owner helped me choose varieties that would be hardier than the rest. Earlier I froze some anthers of a really early day lily that has been growing on the curb for decades. I’m hoping it works to use frozen daylily pollen. I’ve never crossed daylilies before.

This year I ordered for sale three of David Zlesak’s non-rose creations that have been released: Tuscan Sun Heliopsis, the Monarch Series of ageratum (I think there are about 5 or 6 varieties in the series), and Little Devil Ninebark. To get Little Devil he backcrossed Summer Wine Ninebark to its parent, dwarf ninebark, to get a dark foliaged plant with even finer textured branching. I’d love to hear the story of the other plants he has bred. He has bred lilies that bloom the first year from seed, I think. He has a cool, but sterile hybrid of Nicotiana sylvestris.

10

Nothing too exciting, corn or maize is my day job. Iris and hostas are tempting me, but I have not taken the leap yet.

11

I’m beginning a journey on hybridising potatoes… didn’t think it would excite me as much as it is! It’s really cool though. I think it’s because I also have a laminar flow cabinet at work and I’m going to introduce a tissue culture unit to the kids in my science classes to hybridise potatoes, evaluate them, choose their favs, and then tissue culture it to try and maintain a gene-bank of their cultivar. So far I have collectetd a few varieties, from certified seed potatoes, to get the ball rolling. I have ‘Desiree’ to act as the seed parent (it’s reputed to form more berries than pretty much any variety so will be more forgiving to the clumsy-bee antics of 14-16 year old kids), ‘Purple Congo’ (totally purple spud), ‘Sapphire’ (purple marbelling throughout), ‘Dutch Cream’ (just because I’m a sucker for really good mash), ‘Carlingford’ (a commercial variety around here), and ‘Cranberry Red’ (red skin and flesh). It’s the most fun I’ve had in ages learning about spud breeding (I know… I need to get out more). The goal I have for the kids is to get them interested in genetics, to breed their own spud and develop the criteria they think are important and testable to link in with conducting investigations to compare their seedlings. My personal agenda is to see if fertile potatoes and healthy plants can be made so I can conduct a trial to compare the yields and disease resistance of sexually reproduced potatoes compared with those of tissue cultured clones with the view of making fertile lines for farmers to sow real seed instead of seed potatoes for their crops to reduce their reliance on chemicals. This would also pretty much eliminate issues of virus in potatoes. I wish I could get my hands on some of the species potatoes… that would be sweet (lol… pun intended).

Oh… on all the other things I breed, or have bred, I am most proud of breeding excellent children lol.

12

Simon wrote:

Braggart! LOL! Well, at least they’re the most fun! Talk about a “life-long” breeding program. I guess guppies fit my attention span better!

13

Kim,

You are always so generous. Thanks for the offer of the lilac, but I would hate to take the only one you have rooted. Maybe this fall we can trade, I stuck some nice Miss Bloomsalot cuttings this week. I will PM you later.

14

Wonderful Joan, thanks! I’ll look forward to it!

15

At the moment, beside roses I breed Buddlejas, bush Campsis and mini moschata pumpkins.

I select Buddlejas, pocket inodorus melons, pocket watermelons, smaller Swiss Chard and stone tomatoes, here the bees do the crossings.

Pumpkins and watermelons with wild species parents. Stone tomatoes from currant fruited ones.

I have bred or selected many other plants.

About Lilacs: I do not intend to breed them but here Europe excepted laciniata no low chill var is available.

I tried rather hard to get some but did not succeded.

Could somebody gather low chill Lilacs OP seeds for me?

And Joe, do you want some Tom Wagner Whooly Blue Mammoth seeds?

Kim I am interested by a few seeds of all caesalpinias (but gilliesii) that can take z9

16

Hi Pierre, the only seeds available this time of year from my plants (also due to maturity) might be from the mexicana. They grow in Phoenix and are rated to Zone 9. There are many “beans” on the plants as they never cease flowering here. I’ll have to see how many actual seeds are in them. What should be required to send them to France? I know to send bud wood to The Netherlands and Germany, all I have to do is fill out a customs form, stating “wood samples”, “no value” and mail. Would seeds to you be the same?

17

Pierre,

By Joe, I assume you meant me :slight_smile:

I’ve looked into getting some of Tom Wagner’s potato seeds in but our quarantine won’t permit it. They rarely allow seed of commercial fruit or vegetables in unless you are doing the full quarantine routine which lasts a few years and costs a bomb. I have to try and find some species seed potatoes here. It would be awesome if I could get my hands on some of Tom Wagner’s varieties.

Tom Silvers sent me a very interesting link a while back that has got me really thinking about the potato issue more:

http://www.sharebooks.ca/system/files/Potato-Breeders-Manual.pdf

I think there is stuff in this that we could learn from and apply to roses if we were serious about improving their health and long term sustainability.

18

Pierre, I braved the heat to shoot these a bit ago so I could show you what there is. This mexicana seedling is two years old, from seed. It is in very loose, not moisture retentive soil and receives a hose watering about once a week unless it’s cooler when it will go longer without. [flickr_photo src=http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7422628244_11d15aeec9.jpg nsid=67995840@N04 id=7422628244]DSCN1928[/flickr_photo]

It is the “species” with solid yellow blooms and has seed in its pods.

[flickr_photo src=http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/7422628014_4ac5325456.jpg nsid=67995840@N04 id=7422628014]DSCN1930[/flickr_photo][flickr_photo src=http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/7422627938_04e6538194.jpg nsid=67995840@N04 id=7422627938]DSCN1931[/flickr_photo]

The “hybrid mexicana” shows more orange to the buds with some in the open flowers. They have also set seed in their ‘beans’. They appear to be as fast growing as each other and both flourish on very little water, intense sun and unamended soil. [flickr_photo src=http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7422628104_4c4072ccbc.jpg nsid=67995840@N04 id=7422628104]DSCN1929[/flickr_photo][flickr_photo src=http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7115/7422628352_41cf686720.jpg nsid=67995840@N04 id=7422628352]DSCN1927[/flickr_photo]

19

Readers wanting to know more about this topic should see Return to Resistance (available as a free download at > www.sharebooks.ca> ).

Simon,

I got to the bottom of page two and thought "this sure sounds like ‘Return to Resistance’ which someone posted a link to in the past year, and up pops this link (in quotes). Roses and potatoes are not the only modern plant crops to have suffered from modern chemicals and pesticides. Good link and very applicable.

20

. my real love is grapes. I like to work with exclusive N. american species like Vitis riparia that give unique flavours in the wine. Even Vitis labrusca can give raspberry. I made my first cross 12 year ago and only now am I ready to release it at a speciality nursery. This clone is hardy to zone 1b/2a where it grew up.

I also work with Plum/apricot hybrids, plum/sandcherry. and my favourate flower !!!Iris chrysographes nigraI also love the 28-chromosome Lke the modern yellows.

Johannes