My first cross involving xanthina as pollen parent germinated not long ago. Judging from last years attempts it is relatively easy to use. It sets hips fairly easily with a variety of seed parents. I’ll be very curious to see what I get but of course it might be awhile before this seedling blooms, if ever. So far the seedling looks normal, healthy.
I have a friend who is using hugonis. He’s noted the yellow and much of the species character is usually lost in the first generation.
He’s getting close to getting repeat in his descendants now. The recombination of genetic material should bring the yellow back out, with any luck.
Hi Rob. ‘Riverbanks’ was the seed parent. What I believe to be R. xanthina was the pollen parent.
My probable xanthina is a rose I received from Ralph Moore that’s never been positively identified. He thought it was R. primula but that is clearly not correct.
It could possibly be hugonis but I think xanthina more likely.
Good luck with xanthina on your ‘Riverbanks’ Robert. I hope you are successful bringing disease resistance and yellow color into your banksiae hybrids.
“Under-used” and “great potential” are concepts that refer to perspectives.
If the perspective is roses for the most sophisticated ideal HT show table or the best florist rose then no species is “Under-used” with “great potential”. As I was said when years ago advocating for low care roses: “if you love roses it is the pleasure to spray carefully, heavily feed and water and give them as much as possible care.” Going back to species is bastardisation here.
If the perpective is finding new types, uses, or adaptations exploring rose genes and widening gene pool then a lot of species qualify. Allmost all and everyone as beforehand we will never fully know what is to be found.
You may have a preconceived perspective that enlighten your refection or just be adventurous and wander looking at new combinations among the lesser known species genes.
Unavoidingly this leads to some other topics such as “new breeding perspectives” and “species exploration” among others.
? Silver Jubilee, which is a kordesii derivitive, spawned numerous exhibition roses. It has especially passed on really neat, symetrical, holly-like foliage which looks great against the bloom. New species bring in new trait combinations which further refine modern roses.
Where would yellow, white, mauve and orange exhibition HT’s be without the grotesque Rosa foetida? I really doubt they’d have the strength and clarity of color without it or something similar.
That there are known species ancestors a century and eight generations away does not contradict at all.
The rule in HTs rose breeding is constant introgression of species genes whose results were flower sophistication at cost of plant debilitation.
Florist and exhibition rose if unsprayed are no longer able to perform or even survive in many climates.
The debate is which species has something better or different to offer.
I do not see which one has a new color to contribute to HTs.
And I presume most of us would like to consider attempts that can produce results within ten years rather than a century.
About Silver jubilee and progeny: but for a few monthes at its beginnings here I could not appreciate its leaves beauty: they blackspot early and fall below the disappearing plants.
Came across this thread in a search on another topic and thought some follow-ups might be interesting…
Paul, did you ever pursue any of those r. glauca routes?
And Tom, what has become of your interesting babies? I would love some follow-up info on where you have gone with those. (I can’t get the page links anymore, however.) Would love to cross your colorado blue with r. fedtshenkoana.
Any new work with primula or any of the other yellow species?
And, also, I was curious if anyone has every played with ‘Pink Surprise’ – the rugosa/bracteata hybrid. It truly intrigues me… What about ‘Secret Garden’ which resembles a recurrent moschata? Rosa brunonii ‘La Mortola’? or any other near species synstylae?
I’ve been thinking about Rosa helenae as a parent for hardier ramblers. The few helenae hybrids that are available in Scandinavia at the moment (Hybrida, Lykkefund) are not extremely hardy, surviving only in southern Finland. But a rose nursery in northern Finland sells plain Rosa helenae that is apparently much hardier, though I haven’t asked yet what the provenance of their strain is. As helenae is fragrant and apparently very healthy, could it replace wichurana in a cross with (preferably a thornless) rugosa, maybe followed by tetraploid conversion?
I have been interested in Secret Garden Musk too, Philip. I grow abysinnica, and I would like to pollinate it with other moschatas.
What I am interested is using what is called “Crenshaw Musk Rose”-- it is a rose I first saw in the 5th grade on a class trip to San Juan Bautista. I would like to breed new musk roses using that and Secret Garden Musk, both Californian found roses.
Two years ago, I asked the staff inside the house if I could take a cutting. They said no and I respected their decision, although… it wouldn’t hurt if I asked again.
I imagine very beautiful hybrids of Crenshaw Musk Rose X Secret Garden Musk Rose… But, I haven’t been able to get success.
They bloom when San Jose rains. I’ve tried several times to pollinate my abysinnica, and I can never be successful because, literally, the rain ruins it a few minutes later. I’ve so far given up with that rose because, when my other diploids bloom, it’s already done. I do, however, 4 seeds of abysinnica X foliolosa. It hasn’t germinated for 3 years, and who knows it will ever germinate.
You can see San Juan Bautista, the house and the church, in Alfred Hitchcock’s movie, Vertigo… minus the bell tower
Jukka, plants of Rosa helenae I’ve found in commerce here (assuming they are correctly identified - as far as I can tell they are) lack hardiness in zone 4 and 5 winters (-10 to -30 degrees Fahrenheit), so they are markedly less hardy than even the less-hardy hybrids available to you in northern Europe. If you have a source for a much hardier clone, then by all means, you should acquire and use it.
Not much has changed with those hybrids – I’ve been in the process of trying to move them to our new home.
And sorry about those links. Sadly, that host [koolpages] is hardly ever been functional for me, so I’m trying to rework and resurrect my old site at geocities. It’ll probably be a while until I get that done.
As for ‘Pink Surprise’, I’ve heard of it but have never seen it for sale anywhere. I have a hybrid that is somewhat similar that is showing some open-pollinated fertility. It’s one that I’ll be moving though, so I haven’t been trying any intentional crosses on it. I’ll put a link to that hybrid below.
And I agree completely with Jukka about Rosa helenae. I think it has great potential. It is very healthy here, even escaping Rose Rosette Disease, so far. We’re even thinking alike, in the idea of combining it with rugosa. I’d love to see an amphidiploid from rugosa and helenae. I’ll bet it would be terrific.
Definitely Rosa Virginiana. Rounded and fairly compact shape, excellent hardiness, perfect disease resistance and excellent fall leaf color. And it is tetraploid.
There is a great speciman of Rosa Virginiana growing at Morris Arboretum in Philadelphia.
The other one that is under-used is Rosa Palustris. It is bullet-proof as far as disease. I would love to see some repeat flowering roses that could grow in standing water.
One more that I would love to see hybrids of would be Bayse Purple. While not a true species, it is a cross of Rugosa and Foliolosa. I found it to be quite infertile, but the color of the blooms and stems are so unique. Plus, it seemed quite tolerant of wet soils.
Shane I just had six seeds germinate from a cross I made last year of Basye’s Purple X Baby Love. I had a few germinate this Spring but none survived. I am hoping at least one of these will make it I also have some op hips on Basye this year. I also have many, many seeds from my Rosa Glauca X R. Fedtschenkoana cross this year already in the fridge.
Patrick, it is great to hear that you have seedlings from Basye’s Purple! I hope they survive for you. I could never get it to set hips. You will have to post pics if any are worth keeping.
Also, good luck with the Rosa Glauca x R. Fedtschenkoana cross. Rosa Glauca is such a beautiful rose.
It’s been a while since Rosa helenae was discussed here. Any progress, anyone? I got rid of my Rosa helenae ‘Hybrida’ because it lacked winter hardiness. I have a few op seedlings, though. Very interestingly, one of four seedlings is a continuous-blooming dwarf with flowers almost identical to Hybrida. Another is an almost thornless rambler that hasn’t bloomed yet. I’m keeping these both. If the thornless seedling turns out to be even slightly hardier than its visciously thorny mother it might be useful in our climate. The repeat blooming seedling tells in my opinion that Hybrida must be a hybrid with a repeat-blooming parent.