striped leafs / chloroplast chimera

Hi rose freaks!

Yesterday I found a sport on one of my plants of “Eliza”.

Its a chimeric sport concerning the chloroplasts.

I found one plant of Delbard in the internet, that bears this lucky phenomenon too, here it is:

Its called "Elie Semoun

Thank you all for your interest & kind comments!

Hi ann!

I have to translate your posting word by word, as I don’t know some words in it, like “graft transmissible” … .

But don’t worry, I am fast in learning.

@ jadae

“extreme weather” in middle europe is as often as snow in the kalahari! ;-D

But I understood what you meant, I think - effects often appear & disappear, for example due to temperature, etc … .

In this case its a really quite clear pattern, on only one branch of a whole good developing rose bush - thats what leads me to state this trait (thanks for spelling above :wink: ) could be stable.

Hi RosariumRob,

that is an important info and could be a key … so this specimen would be an offspring of the 2004 release.

Seems plausible!

Yes, Stefan, thats what I got as a feeling first, when I saw the sport: its unusually regularely!

I WILL of course wait for a flower and decide then, what to do … occulate or pollinate - or both?

In doubt I will occulate and wait with pollinations, of course … .

Hi Rob Bynes …

I am really a bit confused and excited, because - this might be pretty if its shown on a whole plant together with flowers.

Here is the pattern this afternoon in rain (greetings, Arno - & see you soon!):

Hi Arno,

Very pretty indeed. I’ll take two.

Can you please explain what you mean by ‘occulate’?

Do the stems show any sign of variegation?


Arno, that’s rather attractive.

So it’s a large-flowered pink HT. That could set off the pink spots on the leaves rather nicely.

My impression is that chimeric variegation on flowers and foliage are different and that one doesn’t really indicate the other. Is that correct? (I don’t recall why, biologically.)

Be sure and let us see photos of her in bloom.


Greetings Arno:

Chimerical variegation is normally not seed transmissible – but having said that, hope springs eternal. It should, however, be transmissible by cuttings or grafting, budding. It looks like a garden show stopper – the foliage does not look like the result of any kind of unnealthy pathology. I am now going to check your Delbard link to see what it says/shows.


If chimerism in plants is analogous to that in animals, the difference between flowers and foliage could be that chimerism does not necessarily have to be distributed uniformly or universally throughout the chimeric organism – although I think that uniform chimeras are more common in plants – hence all of the variegated foliage found on different plants – unless they derived from cuttings from a the variegated portion of a plant that wasn’t uniformly affected. The fact that Arno’s variegation does not seem to be present on the entire plant may be evidence of this lack of uniformity or universality. Also, I don’t know how the tissue in flowers and foliage may differ, although I believe that they derive from the same evolutionary origins, i.e., I don’t know how the loss of chloroplasts in leaves relates to flower petals.

Regards, Bob

Greetings again Arno:

I was very impressed with your web site, "Sport und Chim

Arno, I love the appearance that it gives to the leaves. Liz

Hi Don!

Two are more than I have! :smiley:

Excuse my english, “occulate” should mean to put a mersiteme onto a rootstock as the most roses are doubled … .

I don’t know the right expression for this, what I took was the german expression and translatet it directly into English.

I watched the stems very closely, … no, the cariegation is only in the leaf parts of the plant.

Greetings! Arno

should be: meristeme and variegaton. :wink:

By the way, noite to the admins: please be sue to integrate a corrigationing function in here … this is NOT very pleasant.

And every modern forum does have better features (but not necessarely better users :wink: ).

Hi Philip_LA !

I am with you in this topic, the flower and the leafs are different things … maybe. … :smiley:

I will of course make further documentations and keep the diskussion on going as far as I am able to do this.



Sorry, I will be more serious in future, my keybord does not give every hit I did.

To Bob Williams:

you are right, if the topic is special as here the outcomes are often spectacular if they only differ slightly.

I also think that I wouldn’t buy the other types of Rosa x variegatas, expect, perhaps, Verschuren … .

So: its nice: BUT: The only question still left to answer will be: IS IT STABLE!?!


I don’t know and even if I think so, I couldn’t tell you why, for sure.



Hi Liz (and good Nigh to the people here),

For me it looks like crystals or cubic art (or do you say cubistic ar or cubism?) …

Picasso would be a person drawing this pattern in his own view, i am sure.

Greetings and let’s breed it in, if perhaps it is possible!


Here is the latest picture:


The leaves on your plant are much more spectacular than those in the pictures of Verschuren that I have seen.

Congratulations, Bob

Striking color combinations!

Hi Robert& Rob, thank you, - as you know its only a bit luck here and I did not breed this one.

but perhaps the trait really can be bred in!!

I searched for possible viruses that could express such a pattern … but nothing like this should be possible per virus, it seems.

I will do infection experiments in the next weeks too, but I think its origin is of other kind.

Here are my todays results for this topic:


Susceptible to:

Apple mosaic ilarvirus

Natural host range and symptoms

Symptoms persist.


Rosaceae (many species) - necrotic ringspots.


Summary: Symptoms are different.

Arabis mosaic nepovirus

Natural host range and symptoms

Symptoms disappear soon after infection (but plants may remain stunted).

(…) P. persica, (…) Rosa spp., R - mosaics, mottling and chlorotic ringspots and sometimes necrosis.

Summary: Symptoms are different.

chlorotic ringspots would be something like this:

Citrus enation - woody gall (?) luteovirus

Natural host range and symptoms

Symptoms persist.

(…) Rosa sp., (…) - woody galls.

Summary: Symptoms are different.

Prunus necrotic ringspot ilarvirus

Natural host range and symptoms

Symptoms persist (in some hosts), or disappear soon after infection (in some hosts).


Rosa (rose) - chlorotic lines and rings, oak leaf patterns, no recovery.


Summary: Symptoms are different.

Rose (?) tobamovirus

Host range and symptoms

First reported in Rosa spp.; from Essex, U.K.; by Hicks and Frost (1984).

Natural host range and symptoms

Symptoms persist. Symptoms flower break.

Rosa spp. - deformed flecked and streaked petals, but roses infected with this tobamovirus, by sap or grafting, show no flower symptoms so the cause of the flower break disease is unknown.

Summary: Symptoms are different.

Strawberry latent ringspot (?) nepovirus

Host range and symptoms

First reported in Fragaria vesca and Rubus idaeus; from Dundee, Scotland; by Lister (1964).

Natural host range and symptoms


Rosa spp. - chlorotic ringspots and stunting.


Summary: Symptoms are different.

chlorotic ringspots would be something like this:

Rosa setigera

Common names:

Prairie rose; Climbing rose

Susceptible to:

Tobacco streak ilarvirus

Host range and symptoms

First reported in Nicotiana tabacum; from Wisconsin, U.S.A; by Johnson (1936).

Natural host range and symptoms

Symptoms persist (most hosts do not recover).


Rosa setigera - leaf vein yellowing.


Summary: Symptoms are different.

So it should be a Mutation or a Transposon or something I don’t know … .




Jedmar reminded me of one variegata, I even own, but did forget about in this topic, so far:

So, please have also a look at this one: Rosa multiflora watsoniana !

Today I uploaded 3 fotos of my plant to helpmefind:


OK, now I understood:

Curiosity is a nickname for

Rosa wichurana ‘variegata’.

Here the pattern is nice, too!

Will anyone breed with this rose? Seems no one did before, I can’t belive it … .



Someone on this forum tried, and reported that the blooms are so tiny and scarce that it has become a pain to try with.

Hi jedmar!

I think you did mean watsoniana, not wichurana variegata.

Yes, the watsoniana blooms should be really tiny and I think its not sure at all if this plant is fertile - as well as a pollen parent but also as a motherplant!

I think it could be possible to pollinate it and pollinate with its tiny stamina.

I worked with honeybees and with Drosophila as well, as a biologist, so I know what “tiny” can be! :slight_smile:))

But - isn’t this just one of the interesting aspects of although doing it?

Greetings & have a nice weekend!