striped leafs / chloroplast chimera

sorry i meant you jadea, not jedmar. :wink:

I really like the varagation on this rose.

Wow Arno, those leafes looks like army camo!

I love the striped leaves! I have ‘Verschuren’ in my collection (two, actually) plus about a dozen seedlings from open pollinated hips I bought from Gregg at Vintage Gardens.

ALL my seedlings exhibit striped foliage. I expect to see blooms this season. I’ll post pix when that happens.

If you EVER propagate this one, PLEAZE let me know! I’d love to add one to my collection!

Hallo Arno:

That makes two for Don, one for Jeff and add one for me, too, now thatI think I will finally have a place to plant.

Regards, Bob

Hi you,

if its stable I will propagate it for sure!! (That was the missing english word for “occulating” above, which was just “Denglish” or nothing, sorry I simply missed the word :wink:) ).

Hey Jeff, if really all your seedlings have got this trait from “Verschuren”, thats … unblieveable.

Yesterday I got “delbaplan” from Delbard via a rosist, so I will compare the two roses in the future … in short: the leafs already look VERY similar to my sport - but the flowers of this rose should be red and not pink like those of “Eliza”. …

Puh, thats luck for me, so its visible that this story is no fake. :wink:

And adding another important (small?) difference for the future: the red and pink shaded borders of the leafs also more visible than the small ones at the Delbard plant … .

… But - looking only at the variegation itself - they are really PRETTY close together, the pattern looks VERY similar!

Greetings!

Arno

Re Watsoniana. A paper from many years ago in the British Rose Society annual said that seeds from Watsoniana produced normal looking multiflora offspring. I find that my Watsoniana is often a Powdery Mildew mess in spring, that it blooms earlier than multiflora and that often the buds fall off before opening and it doesn’t require freezing temperatures to drop buds.

Back on main topic. In addition to viruses, consider the possibility of phytoplasmas. They are recently described affecting roses in China and in eastern Europe (google scholar papers by Kaminska as a place to start.)

You might be interested in some of the changes in poinsettias that are attributed to phytoplasmas. There are some ‘new’ poinsettias with leaves with irrational asymmetry and variagation that carries over to the speckles on the blooms.

Link: www.apsnet.org/online/feature/xmasflower/

Re Watsoniana. This is a virus induced phenotype.

Years ago I saw this contamination spreading to many other roses sp and vars along a row of a collection. Contamination was either from pruning tools or stinging insects or nematods.

They were carefully burned.

scary x_X thanks Pierre

Hi ann!!

Thank you for your interesting posting! I hope to google your infos soon, either I don’t know anything about “phytoplasmas” as a disease, or I only don’t know the english word and its a phenomenon I know only in german words … .

Lets see.

These days I don’t have much time, but the next two weeks are free … ! :slight_smile:

So I can pollinate and jump through the garden until they come and catch me as gone mad and insane.

:slight_smile:))

And I can also read further infos, - the last couple days it was impossible for me, as i had a lot of work to do here … .

Very good, I will of course try the watsoniana crossings, because it could be recessive and then nobody would see it in the F1, but later, in F2 … .

Again: Thanks for the very good and nice posting!

Arno

Hi Pierre!

I will although try the crossings, because no virus that hits roses with this forms of symptoms is described in literature … as far as i am informed … .

But of course I have to learn a lot … .

Lets see …

You and ann are the so far only source for these infos!

Thank you for your good statements!

Greetings!

Arno

Arno

You wrote…

“because no virus that hits roses with this forms of symptoms is described in literature … as far as i am informed …”

Many viral symptoms on roses are not from a single virus but from additional effects of several. Many virus strains are little debilitating alone and go accumulating unsuspected.

I have seen a Koster var with foliaceous long and large sepals, green very short petals and stunted thick growth that was extraordinary enough for someone to try to register it as a new var. It has been rejected as its features were suspected of being from virus accumulation.

“Watsoniana” contamination was horrible with many plants completely distorted, weakened and probably bound to die. May be Multiflora is among the rare roses that can bear this without dying.

Hi!

Hmn … .

Couldn’t it also be a Transposon or harmless virus, that inserted just at the place where the watsoniana mutation was - and took this information within, to infect other plants with it?



And: Then its interesting to infect small multiflora seedlings with that virus Transposon, etc.

By the way: I have got the watsoniana plant in a pot and think thats a good idea, to leave it in there, now. :smiley:

Would be bad if my multifloras where hit here.

I would cry badly. :wink:

Greetings, Arno

I was perusing photos and saw several of Russells Cottage Rose which gives the appearance of being a chimera of another kind, a graft chimera. What do you think?

Link: helpmefind.com/rose/pics.php?l=2.5565&nr=28574&js=0

I wouldn’t rule that out, but I see no reason to think that it’s a graft chimera. Peaches often have pink, striped, white, and almost red flowers on the same tree.

Peter

I was thinking more that there appear to be two flower forms but it is hard to tell.

Be sure to mind that wonderful red edge when you start breeding! It makes it for me.

I have encountered chimeral foliage a couple of times in roses.

The first time it was this pink mini. She died. I was heartbroken.

Imagine revealing so little of itself, but being so regular within that one limited area. It is so easy to visualize a whole cultivar with that that wide white margin.



Now, I have a new love. An old standard with a new twist. It is a bit more stable inasmuch as every leaf on an entire cane is effected, although the patterning is more erratic. Its much like ‘Verschuren’ I suspect and hope.

So, can anyone tell me what kind of seed parent does ‘Double Delight’ make? If it does alright I might just have to become a regular here.

Thanks for sharing this topic. I hope that it will not be seen as a hijacking.

T.C. Jeff

T.C. Jeff

Double Delight mildews badly here. So I would use it with a pretty healthy parent. Never used it myself but from what notes I have it has limited fertility but has been used by others as a seed parent. Many have reported the stamens are intertwined baddly and did not thiink it worth the hassle to use as a pollen parent.