This method was recently reported by Jim S to have worked for him to obtain satisfactory germination rates.
Approximate method: One sprinckles a small amount of water inside the zip-lock baggy containing the rose seed about to be stratified, doing away with using wet paper inside the baggy altogether. Then one goes ahead and stratifies the rose seed in the usual manner.
I also confirm this modification has worked for me.
Thx Jim S for the nice tip, too easy !
Hi George,
It is amazing why we do the things that we do! When something “works”, we assume that it was needed.
I had learned many years ago that it was necessary to wrap rose seeds in paper towels and then to moisten the towels with a dilute Captan solution, then place them into ziplock bags. And it worked!
Then a few years ago, not wanting greater exposure to chemicals I decided to opt out of the Captan and just use water to moisten the paper towels. And, it worked!
Then, having been frustrated with the mess of partially decaying paper towels, and the difficulty of removing the seeds from them for planting, I decided to try just placing a small piece of moistened paper towel along with the seeds in a ziplock bag. And, it worked too!
Then last year, I think that it was at your suggestion George, I tried just spraying a bit of water with a spray bottle into the ziplock bags (more spray if many seeds were in the bags). And, by golly, it worked too! No paper towels, and no Captan. No mess, and the seeds are easy to plant from the ziplock bags.
…I wonder what else I do because it appears to work??..
I like to use sand as the color tells me that bag has not dried out.
Hi Jim S,
You sure have a good memory !
I am so happy about this result, I have seeds sprouting like weeds from this method, even now many weeks after sowing, and like you say it is totally without gooy mess and fiddly/rotting materials in the baggy, come time for seed sowing.
Hi Henry, what you say you do is fair enough !
However, in this case, there was absolutely no dehydration in the baggy after 8 weeks in the fridge, it just needs to be sealed properly and then just left alone.
LOL… there are many ways about this, but I’ll be sticking to this idea from now on, to be sure. I can’t see it being improved, but if anyone does, please let us know, I /most of us surely love simple things that work!
:O)
What works vs what really matters is a very interesting question. It is related to the notion of apprenticeships vs evidence-based practices. Take a look at the practice of medicine and ask how much is based on firm evidence and how much is based on what the professor or supervisor said was best. Things change, but slowly.
In the literature on germination there are a lot of variations over the years. For a time some folks swore that you had to dilute out the germination inhibitors, and maybe bind them up to something like charcoal. Earlier, as quoted by Karl, people just let the hips rot. The most detailed studies in the 1930s used moist sand, which as Henry points out, lets you see wet vs dry easily. Also it was cheap and available.
My worry with the ultimate simplification is that over long periods of time in the frig water will escape through tiny holes letting seed dry out. And we know that dry seed doesn’t germinate. I used peat moss for decades because the acidity inhibits mold growth and it holds a lot of water without putting a coating of water all over the seeds. Probably true. Better than other methods? No evidence, just my own guess. I switched to vermiculite because it starts out dry and takes up water easily, unlike peat moss. So for my experiments it is simpler to get defined conditions. And results are good so I’ve stuck with it. But probably I could put nitrate-wetted seeds in little open vials in a controlled atmosphere box and do just fine. Maybe I should try it.
I change it every year out of boredom, but I do like something that absorbs chemicals, so that any inhibitors could be absorbed.
I tried the plain water in the bag this year and scrapped it because it caused the seeds to develop a very healthy crop of nasty black mould. I don’t worry about any other mould except black mould. So moist peat went back into the bag and the mould disappeared. The moist peat has been the easiest method I’ve tried so far that works for me and my minimalist approach to rose growing.
There was mold in mine too, some black some grey some blue, but germinations have been excellent despite this.
So whatever.
good to see some plants oneday George?
Why, yes Warren seedlings usually turn into plants if you let them.
I have a heavy hand in culling, most have proved to be rubbish so far.
I think of it this way:
Time is too short / precious for me to be spending hours documenting every which rose that sprout for me just for the sake of satisfying my own numbers urges.
I agree, George.
Warren, please do not be catty here, regardless of what your intent was. That is the wrong atmosphere for the purpose here.
I think this is great news! I will certainly try it because I’m really sick of dealing with icky, moldy, disintegrating paper towels, lol! Thanks!
There must have been around 300-400 seeds out of this batch that I stratified for 8 weeks in the fridge using this method.
I think I sowed the seed about 4 or up to maybe 6 weeks ago ?
I sowed them in a sand/perlite mix, let the “germination pots” sit in a water bath which I constantly topped up and not let dry out, and deliberately didn’t water the germination media from the top at any stage.
I have been transplanting them immediately they pop up from this soil-less germination media directly into this large (and very deep) pot which contains rich garden soil. I don’t bother counting but there must be around 100 seedlings there already from that batch of 300-400, and more are sprouting daily (I just picked 2 more this morning).
:O)
[attachment 1110 SANY0297.JPG]
I am thinking out of a few hundred of these in this one huge pot, I’ll keep 2-3 of the best for the traits I am looking for, and the pot is so big there would be no reason to transplant the 2-3 keepers that remain in the first season. They could stay on in this pot.
I am trying to figure out ways in which I can do this stuff even in a tiny suburban back yard.
:O)
The process of figuring out and problem solving for this hobby continues for me (and I guess a lot of you), but my journey at least has largely been a lot of FUN !
George, you are perhaps the most brutal culler on this forum!
lol…that is so funny ! :O)
…its out of having not much choice due to very little space for “test beds” here.
Around here (walking distance to central business hub area) people are priviliged to even own a home in their lifetimes, things are so ridiculously expensive, and the properties are usually tiny.
My mom loves roses, any good ones of mine will go there where there is land available to grow them on in some sort of test bed scenario. She lives close to me, which makes it practical to do as well.
Thank goodness !
Yup, after my dad died back in '85, mom required a lot more attention than previously. Having three hundred plus roses at her house made paying that attention a lot easier. Of course, her being the source of my gardening interests didn’t hurt, either, but being able to share that interest kept things lighter and more interesting, and much less of a chore, which it quickly could have become.
Sorry about ur dad.
Here is the “germination bath” … I literally dumped 300-400 seeds into those three pots, near the top of the media…I know it is a crazy number but it seems to have worked and minimized space required for such. It has created a daily (morning - midday) picking of new sprouters for weeks now. Just picked something like 10 sprouts before this pic was taken…they remind me of alfalfa sprouts lol. I am less precious about these compared to how I used to be years ago, when a single germination was such a source of amazement and accomplishment.
[attachment 1113 SANY0297.JPG]