Hello everyone!
I realised that I had too few germinations from my tea rose ‘General Schablikine’, though the number of achenes resulted from crosses was quite good. Is there anything special in stratification of teas? (or noisettes)? I treat achenes like from any other type of roses, which is keeping them at 3-4 C in the fridge in wet towels for >3-5 months, so, is this wrong? I have no problem with germination of others, they normally start breaking shells directly in the fridge.
Do teas need a different protocol?
Thanks in advance.
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Hello Giessen!
I suspect that the cold stratification time might be too long for this type of rose seeds. 2-3 months stratification should be sufficient. Furthermore, I seem to remember reading an scientific article long time ago that too much cold stratification can also imply negatively affects in the germination process. In the end it would depend on a further try. Maybe something will move after all. I wish you good luck!
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Thank you! I think, I will play around with temperature protocols…
Magazine of Horticulture 4(7): 247-248 (July 1838)
Art. III. Experiments on the Vegetation of Rose Seeds.
By R. Buist, Florist, &c, Philadelphia.
Sir,—Some time last year I observed in your Magazine, a difference of opinion between two of your correspondents, in regard to the vegetating of rose seeds. I then determined on sowing some of the many varieties, and send you the result of my experiments.
No. 1. Seeds of Rosa indica odorata, or tea rose, were sown on the first of December, 1837, and vegetated in a temperature of between 58° and 65° Fahr., in from six weeks to three months, coming up occasionally during that period; the most of them have now bloomed, but not sufficiently strong to determine their character.
No. 2, of the same seed, and picked at the same time, was kept four weeks in sand, and sown on the ninth of January, 1838, and vegetated generally in seven weeks. The plants grew stronger and flowered better than No. 1, although treated in the same manner.
No. 3, seeds of the same, kept in sand till the first of February, and sown in pots and placed in dung or manure hot-bed, vegetated beautifully in six weeks, temperature from 65° to 75° Fahr., and are now promising, in growth, bloom and character, to surpass Nos. 1 and 2.
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Thank you very much!
I’ve experienced similarly disappointing results when stratifying tea and China seeds at refrigerator temperatures. I suspected that warmer “cool” sowing (window sill?) temperatures might be helpful, but Kar’s Buist reference really solidifies that suspicion. Now, if only I could find uncontaminated horticultural sand in my area! I might have to import it from farther inland to avoid the salt. Noisettes (sensu lato) might be somewhat happier with cold stratification, depending on whether they are closer to the musk or tea ends of the spectrum…
Stefan
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20天低温就可以了吧。20 days of low temperature should be enough
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Well, 20 days is certainly less time than I’ve previously stratified any of my rose seeds before pulling them out, so that will be interesting to try! I have a very small sample of open-pollinated tea/China seeds that I put into the refrigerator on Jan. 12th, and I just removed them, so that will be about 27 days of cold. I’ll report back if anything starts happening.
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Thank you! I already had some seedlings from the cross tea x modern floribunda, but funny enough these took a longer time of COLD stratification. Usually my seeds start to germinate in february/march, but those came first in the midsummer or even later… But they vere few. Most did not germinate at all. First I wanted to make embryo extraction but then I realized I had too many regular seedlings, so, I just discarded them. This year I am trying a different protocol.
大部分完全足够了。茶月季不清楚，我没有杂交过。目前我做的是现代ht杂ht,法国蔷薇百叶蔷薇波旁月季，苔藓蔷薇和现代月季等的杂交。整体看，20-3天够了。如果没冰箱，12月播种够了。尽量不要秋天播种，很多疾病。另外，粉晕香水这类，不是好的亲本，后代非常弱。Most are perfectly adequate. Tea rose is not clear. I have not crossed. At present I do modern ht hybrid ht, French rose louver rose bourbon rose, moss rose and modern rose cross. Overall, 20-3 days is enough. If you don’t have a refrigerator, you can plant enough seeds in December. Try not to sow in autumn, many diseases. In addition, the powder halo perfume of this kind, is not a good parent, the offspring is very weak.
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Without first year stratification germination, If it is a small amount and you are open to doing this, I would hold them another year. I have no scientific proof that this will work. Allow the seeds that have not germinated to stay unrefrigerated once outdoor temps get above 55 overnight in soil mixture you don’t let dry out outdoors. Restratify again next fall and plant after two/three months or leave outside planted in covered boxes with winter protection until overnight temps are in the 40’s consistently then take the protection and cover off.
I was surprised to find out that this worked with seeds from Peace and Paul’s Lemon Pillar.
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MidAtlas, did you have any success with the short stratification?
No, there was no germination; I returned the seeds to the refrigerator after a few weeks. I’ve just started getting the first germinations of other rose seeds that remained refrigerated the whole time, so it’s still quite early. It was a very small sample, and I don’t have a baseline for comparison with these varieties using stratification under long refrigeration, so it’s hard to draw any specific conclusions.
Stefan
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Just a small update: one seed has germinated in one of the bags that I returned to the refrigerator. Actually, I didn’t realize that I had returned them to a particularly cold spot, and I discovered that ice had formed in at least one bag. This germination occurred rather soon after moving them to a somewhat warmer part of the fridge (in the door).
There still isn’t much of a lesson to be drawn from this experiment, of course, but it is encouraging to see that the time spent out of refrigerator so early in the stratification cycle (as well as the near-freezing conditions that followed) didn’t necessarily set all of the seeds back.
Stefan
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Isnt it also a little bit having patience? I started this year again after 7 years orso and made a lot errors this year. Some dried out, some too wet in the fridge and some where stored good, some soaked too long because i just forgot. When it was cold outside I put them in the garage and they took some freeze also. Few months they sprouting now and still seeds pop open. Few days ago i thought no seeds where popping open but yesterday suddenly 6 Westerland seeds came to life. Maybe its a matter of let nature do its thingy. I got 122 babies now and hopefully they keep comming. I just have the workflow to do what nature does here in Europe and it finds it way.
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Yes, patience is always helpful. However, the problem at hand is that teas and Chinas (and probably at least tea-Noisettes) have produced poor germination results for some of us, so it might be helpful to try to work out some protocol that could produce better germination success with them. For what it’s worth, I’ve never had any seedlings appear from a tea or China outdoors, even though other roses often produce abundant seedlings under natural conditions. From that, I would surmise that the the conditions that nature provides here aren’t necessarily sufficient to get the job done for these types–things could always be different in Europe, of course.
Stefan
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My plan right now with my teas is no stratification and sowing at room temperature. But i want to grow seeds from tipsy imperial concubine, which is listed as a tea or hybrid tea on hmf. If its a hybrid tea, i would be more inclined to stratify, but if its more tea then i dont think i would want to stratify. I have also thought about maybe sowing tea seeds into soil and moving them into the fridge for the night and at room temperature during the day for a couple weeks at the start to see if that helps. Im curious what you all think would be the best approach for the most success.
I don’t think there’s any chance that Tipsy Imperial Concubine is a pure-blooded tea rose. I would probably suggest cold stratification for that one, even if you plan to experiment with keeping the others warm.
I have gotten a few germinations from my stratified tea and China seeds, although it might be significant that the tea (which germinated better, but still not very well) is really a tea-Noisette by background even though it’s never classified that way.
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A question to anybody who may have insight: would having a tea rose as the father result in the same stratification scheme, or is this true only when a tea is the mother plant?
My feeling (from everything I’ve experienced to date) is that the optimal stratification regimen is driven mostly by the background of the seed parent, and has relatively little to do with the pollen parent.
Stefan
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