Does anyone have a source for this one? Vintage Gardens is listed as a source on HMF but a check of their site doesn’t see it as being offered.
Rob
The two best bets would be Burlington Roses and Paul Barden. I haven’t grown it in years. Kim
I have it Rob, and can ship you a small plant.
That would be great Paul. Thank you for the offer. 
Do you think it’s OK to ship now or are you thinking of spring time?
Do you know the ploidy of ‘Papoose’ and ‘Ralph’s Creeper’? Is triploid a safe guess? I’m thinking these two might be good to work with to pass on the healthy traits of wichuriana.
Thank you again.
Rob
Ralph’s Creeper is a blackspot mess in NW OR 
Jadae,
Really?? Darn…I thought that RC would be a sure shot for disease resistance. I’ll have to take that one off my list to purchase for spring.
It might be elsewhere but I also didnt think the vigor was stellar either.
Papoose may be a better choice for me it sounds like.
I’m NOT surprised, Ralph’s Creeper is half Playboy! What you should do is cross Papoose with C F Meyer and keep it up THERE! It would probably do well for you and be gawdawful here where Playboy and its mignon are usually difficult, at best.
No idea about the ploidy of either, Rob. Triploid or diploid is a reasonable guess. ‘Pappoose’ is a miserly seed setter, so expect to use it for pollen mostly.
Curiously, ‘Ralph’s Creeper’ can be quite disease free in some locations, and is remarkably good in shady spots. It won’t readily set seed with foreign pollen, though, if at all.
At this point, Rob, it would probably be better to wait till April to ship plants to your area, since they are likely to be exposed to hard freezing in transit. (They won’t like that) I will keep a tab on what varieties you have requested, but remind me in March, OK?
Paul
I’m not looking to get C F Myer itself. It would be way to big for me. Tamora might work for me though.
Thanks for sharing how bad Playboy is. I wasn’t aware of that.
The next valley north is Santa Clarita. There, Playboy was stupendous. Totally clean, ever flowering, able to be pollinated with dirt. All reasons Ralph used it extensively. Here in the south end of the San Fernando Valley, it is as bad as Paul Neyron and 99.99% of the rest of the HPs, Boubons, Damasks, etc. Terrible foliage, usually bare, requiring extreme chemical measures. As long as it remains very dry, or too hot or cold for rust and black spot, there probably won’t be any issues with it.
It’s really very unfortunate that the old stand-bys which accept any pollen, have so many transmissable defects. Angel Farts has weak plants, muddy colors and a whole lot of BS. Playboy gives colors which fade to usually ugly tones and tons of rust. Orangeade can transmit black spot. But, all three are very fertile Myrtles. They’ll take any pollen you put on them and every seed germinates. I ONLY used Orangeade as the last resort. Nothing else took with Fedtschenkoana. Orangeade did! Kim
‘Playboy’ seems to make some amazing roses too… when Paul brought ‘My Stars’ to my attention I thought it was the most amazing rose (probably has a lot to do Paul’s excellent photo on HMF too but still…). For some reason I can’t keep ‘Playboy’ alive here though. I just drops dead on me.
I believe that Cinco de Mayo, love or hate the color, may be an excellent substitute to Playboy in breeding. I also believe it can likely produce a massive range of colors, so I dont think being hung up on the color should be a consideration.
Some years ago, while researching an article about some of Ralph’s roses, I dug out Playboy’s lineage. This was long before I was on line and had HMF. It has Rugosa several times behind it. I’ve wondered if that had anything to do with its proclivity to rust.
If it does, that would answer the question about the incompatability being bred out in a few generations. Kim
Rust and the cinn. group seem to have some sort of correlation, which is depressing. I know gymnocarpa, pisocarpa and woodsii all get it locally. I have yet to see it on aciclaris. canina nevergets it and Ive seen hundreds of wild plants of it.
It also has rubiginosa in it which also rusts quite badly here.
The funny thing about the difference between my Rosa canina x Baby Love vs. Rosa rubiginosa x Baby Love seedlings.
Both retained climbing genetics. Both retain vigor.
However, the former is extremely clean, with a really low thorn count. The latter has mildew on some with an extremely dense thorn count. I cannot imagine that the glandular habit is helping it in the “helpful gardening traits department” like Rosa canina has been doing for me.One trait I noticed that gets picked up from canina-- peach fuzz on random areas like the leaf surface (think: Linda Campbell). I have always associated this trait positively in roses based on experience even though I have no clue what it really means.
My Clinophylly/Bracteata seedling has that “peach fuzz”. Kim
My clinophylla x bracteata doesn’t… Clinophylla did when newly germinated. Now has it only on the stems like bracteata does.