At this time of year, I start thinking about what I want to cross next year. So far, these are on my to do list:
Souv de Francois Gaulain x White Pearl in Red Dragon’s Mouth
SDFG sometimes gives blue/gray leaved seedlings on dense plants, WPIRDM sometimes gives cupped flowered seedlings, both parents do well in Florida. I want to bring these traits together.
Le Vesuve x Tiffany
Looking for a more fragrant version of LV. Tiffany pollen will likely go on several china/teas to add some fragrance.
Planten un Blumen x M. Tillier
Smaller M. Tillier with better heat tolerance in it’s flowers.
Banksia x various china pollen
Looking for a fertile banksia/china seedling for further breeding. Banksias flower early, but chinas bloom 12 months a year here, so it’s not an issue.
(Peach Drift x op) x various china pollen
Bi-colored china with vigorous wichuriana influenced roots.
Good luck getting Banksiae to set seed with anything, Charles. The only Banksiae I’ve ever had SET hips is Lutescens and only self set. It has resisted all attempts at pollinating it. Its pollen has worked on minis and a few larger hybrids. The cross I keep attempting is Miss Lowe X Banksiae lutescens. THAT should give something other than very pale pastels or plain white!
I’ll try it both ways. No bloom goes to waste. If I get something fertile, I’ll send one your way, since you’re working with banksia also. The weather in Florida is quite different than California, so it may make a difference.
Banksiae is fully compatible with diploid Chinas and then progenies are very fertile.
First time I experienced it was some fifteen years ago when collecting hips at “La Mortola” garden on The Fairy.
From these hips I got a few very fertile seedlings that had the same unmistakable very straight rather erect and inermous ground stems as Banksiaes that are common and diverse in this large Italian Riviera public garden/park.
Later I got other hybrids with B pollen on diverse species. Those with chinas always very fertile.
From a population evolved from (Orleans Rose x Miss Lowe) x Banksiae I grow for close to fifteen years (6-7 generations) now I got this year with the help of Lens Weepy that has miniaturising habilities a lot of very decorative distinctive gracious dense and quite desease tolerant micro to minis.
Pierre, that is interesting that banksias might work with The Fairy, I had not considered that. I don’t grow The Fairy, but the drift series is closely related, and I have some drift related things including a Peach Drift x red china that I kept from this year that I will try. Congratulations on your mini banksias, they sound wonderful. If selected for elongated leaves, I can picture a miniature weeping willow tree with recurrent flowers, which would be quite beautiful.
Does anyone have any experience with Banksiae normalis? The largest and oldest rose where I live in Baton Rouge and the surrounding area is I believe a huge B normalis bush at the Independence Park Botanical Gardens. I actually stopped by on my routine visit last week and found, for the first time, it has set HIPS! I collected a generous amount but most were too high up for me to reach. My point is perhaps B normalis could work as a seed parent? I’m going to try and extract the seeds but quite honestly I find it interesting the “biggest” rose bush I’ve ever seen is making the “smallest” hips I’ve ever seen. They are not bigger than a bebe or a small lead sinker for a fishing line!
I frequently discovered hips on the Normalis at The Huntington Library years ago. I collected and sewed quite a few with no results. After I obtained Lutescens, I began using it and have had some successes in raising seedlings from its pollen. I’ve planted a number of self seed from it with one seedling germinating in only four months from being planted. It’s filled a seven gallon can now and has yet to flower. Hopefully, something might come from it this year. Traditionally, Banksiae seed is said to require up to two years for germination. There are self hips on Lutescens now, which I am not planning to sew. Other than the four month germination, none of the others sprouted after two years.
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Normalis and lutescens both are fertile. If you grow them together or with the fuller clones you get many hips.
A curiosity is that seedlings are either white or yellow and either simple or full as the four named clones. I grew a few hundreds and never found one in between.
No outcrosses among them also. Explanation being that little other roses are as early.
My experience sowing banksiae seed is that one year old dry stored ones are easy when with fresh seeds I had no more success than Kim.
No problem with hybrid seeds from B pollen.
Hips are among the smallest I know and have a special feature: when suddenly mature they soften brown and fall without the peduncle. The fallen ones disappear immediatly being very attractive to mices and other critters.
In this climate, Banksiae is highly powdery mildew resistant. The only mildewy one I know of is the double yellow out front which grows with a mature stand of golden bamboo of the same vintage. The bamboo keeps the Banksiae water stressed and bathes it in a constant supply of increased humidity due to its transpiration. That plant is mildewed much of the year. It had overgrown the garage roof and provided secure habitat for rodents, so I whacked it back to the “nubs” this summer. Without any real rain and with virtually no supplemental irrigation, it has exploded back and even has a few flowers on it now. These are on a whip grown in the past four months. Banksiae hybrid seedlings are severely prone to mildew in this climate. Robert Rippetoe has found the same thing, though he reports some outgrow the fungal issues. So far, only one of mine appears to have outgrown the mildew so far.
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Charles, I have had some success with M. Tillier. I used the pollen on Julia Child and got Liebesperle. I have observed that it has large blooms that remain large even in my climate. We have been blessed with some really hot summers since this rose was hybridized and she appears pretty heat tolerant. I would say that M Tillier will pass on some heat tolerance.
Joan, Julia Child x M.Tillier sounds like a smart cross, between Tillier’s great health and Julia’s good health and non heat shrinking blooms. I hope Liebesperle continues to do well. I started using M.Tillier last year. I used it as seed parent, and they just started popping up a few weeks ago. I can’t comment on them much, but they seem healthy and vigorous so far. I’ll try using it for pollen this year also, thanks.
I remember you saying you were going to work with Chinas some. FYI, Darlow’s Enigma works well with China pollen (Old Blush and Ducher) and gave me some excellent healthy, fragrant seedlings last year.
Charles, I will check out Darlow’s Enigma, thanks for the heads up. My top priority this year is Ducher X (Honey Perfume X Smoky). The seedling was from a 2012 cross and produced a yellow color that I was excited about. I want to get that pollen on a china. In 2013 I crossed Ducher X Nacogdoches and got 27 seeds and Ducher X Sugarbooger and got 25 seeds. I overlooked Ducher for a number of years as a mother plant until last spring. Ducher will be one of my top mother plants for 2014. She will get every bit of pollen from yellow roses I can get my hands on. For my climate I think a good yellow china would be very popular.
How is the mildew on Ducher’s seedlings, Joan? I’ve grown it in Newhall, Encino and at the beach (where it demanded regular spraying) and have had mildew issues with it in all three locations, even with increased water. That is a great yellow, BTW. Congratulations!
Kim,
So far I don’t have any seedlings of Ducher, I was late getting them planted this year so none are up yet. However, Ducher is very clean here. My mother plant is one of a few that are still in the ground after about 10 yrs. I don’t recall it ever having mildew and very little black spot. It is one of the first to bloom here so I have to save pollen over the winter to use on it.
Kim, how do the red Chinas do in Cali. against powdery mildew, specifically, White Pearl in Red Dragon’s Mouth, Gruss an Teplitz, and Purpurea? Ducher and it’s seedlings have no powdery mildew for me here in Florida, but PM is rare here.
Basye’s Blueberry x Double Knockout bloomed again, reminding me I wanted to try it on my red Chinas to add some new anti-blackspot genes and thornlessness. When I first made the BB x DKO cross, I wanted thornless, healthy, and fragrant. I got thornless and healthy, but little fragrance and ordinary semi double red flowers. It might still be useful though.
Hi Charles, Jim Delahanty grew White Pearl in Sherman Oaks, eight miles east of me where the marine influence was high as he was right in the pass through the mountains to the beach. There it mildewed rather badly. I’ve not grown it. Gruss an Teplitz is relatively clean once established. Purpurea has been rudely healthy both for Jim and for me. It’s biggest drawback here is the petal substance and color in high, dry heat. With some shade protection they last well. In direct, arid high heat, they’re toast, but what isn’t?
Charles, don’t know what part of Florida you are in. I have a daughter who moved to the Lake Worth area a year and half ago. We made a visit over Thanksgiving and my daughter and I checked out a couple of nurseries. I noticed very few roses at the nurseries or being used in landscaping in the area. Perhaps it was just the area as I’ve visited the Orlando area and seem to remember more roses being used there. Just wondering if the roses I am hybridizing here in Central Texas would work in her area?
Roses aren’t very popular in my part of central Florida either. Driving around, you see a few Knockouts and a few grafted one cane wonder HTs, but that’s about it. Things closely related to Chinas and maybe Teas are your best bets for here. Chinas will live longer here. Ducher’s plant does great here, although the blooms are small and fry easily. Something like Ducher crossed with your Liebesperle would have a good chance of doing well here I think. Good luck.
