I have no idea. But the stippling if you look up close (very close), at least on my sevilliana, and I don’t know if this is an optical illusion or not, looks slightly indented. As if the darker part of the petal was also different somehow. As I think about it I wish I had a petal to look at to really be able look at up close. I just remember looking at it and thinking how it looked textured.
The other thing is that it seems that sometimes spotted cultivars can ‘lose’ thier spots. For an example, I got a Ma Ponctuee from a very reputable local ‘vintage’ rose nursery. I got it because it supposedly is spotted, but lo I come to find out that my plant doesn’t have a single spot on it! It’s petals are perfectly clear pink through and through. I looked this up online, since after a few conversations with the nursery man I had no doubt that he knew his roses through and through. I discovered, (to copy from helpmefind: "
Classic Roses: An Illustrated Encyclopedia and Grower’s Manual of Old Roses, Shrub Roses & Climbers Page(s) 163.
Ma Ponctu
That’s interesting because some rose spots/stipples/whatever are raised instead of indented.
That could be it, admittedly I have very bad eyes, that was just my first impression. I’ll check mine if that last bud ever blooms.
There is also Kir Royal, a Meilland climbing rose that is very disease resistant. I used it on Bonica last year, but the seedlings were not very special. Bonica gives mostly seedlings that look like selfs. I didn’t notice the stippling on the seedlings.
I know Meilland used Prairie Princess when breeding Colette. Maybe they used other Buck roses in their breeding program?
Rob
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pics.php?qs=18780
I wish I had a picture of my arkansana handy. It’s got pretty pronounced darker markings (sptripping/spotting) on its pale-pink petals. I think the markings tend to be concentrated in the central part of the petal. That species might be something to consider bringing in to a breeding program for patterns.
Meilland also used Buck roses in Carefree Wonder. They also use handpainteds.
I have a R. arkansana with stipples like you mention Tom. I got it from Morris, MN (central, West part of state). I have tried to use it in breeding, but it makes a poor female in crosses and only select males take it. ‘George Vancouver’ took its pollen well. There was one repeat flowering stippled offspring. It was kind of weak and died unfortunately. I don’t know for sure, but maybe this clone is more disease resistant than some of those used at Morden. I don’t know where they got theirs, but this one is from central MN where it is more humid than the more Northern, Canadian plains. I raised op seedlings of this R. ark and think they are mainly hybrids with neighboring roses (there are a couple hundred shrub rose seedlings near it). I took some cuttings of one of the nicest of these seedlings to share come spring. They are healed in outside in the backyard now. The seedling is larger than my R. ark growing to ~4’ tall, while my R. ark is about 18". It is once blooming (R. ark more free flowering), very healthy, vigorous, single with slight stippling, and has very nice red/pink filaments. ‘Carefree Beauty’ can provide that trait in offspring (I think it’s recessive and CB is a carrier) and many of these neighboring shrubs have CB in them.
David,
Do you have any OGR type roses growing nearby as well?
From my experiences with virginiana and carolina [which are very similar to what you’ve seen with arkansana – poor success as seed parent for crosses, a little better as the pollen parent], the only pollen that has been successful for me on the native tetraploids has been from Rosa gallica officinalis. I also got seeds once from Banshee pollen but didn’t get any germination.
I got my arkansana from ForestFarm nursery; I’m not sure where they got it. It’s got somewhat glaucous foliage and the flowers are nicely clove-scented. I hadn’t noticed the scent until two years ago; it was a really nice surprise. As far as disease goes, it only suffers from fairly regular but mild bouts of mildew here. It doesn’t repeat bloom at all here.
I’ve got some intercrosses of it [with some of my other native tetraploids] that haven’t bloomed yet, but they seem to be very strong growers.
Hi Tom, That’s great to know about R. gallica crossing well with the Carolinae section roses. I don’t have any gallicas nearby, but many of these shrub roses are hybrids of Carefree Beauty and CB descendants with descendants of R. virginiana and/or R. palustris. I think my R. ark. gets a little mildew once in a while too, but not too bad. It’s nice it has sporatic repeat bloom, some years better than others. It’s suckering more now and I should have some to share come spring if people are interested in this clone. I chose it because of it’s stipples. The diversity of flower color in the ditch surprised me. There were deep pink, medium pink and blush clones, along with ones like this one that had some stippling. This one is a blush with stippling and the stipples stand out better because of the lighter background.
Sincerely,
David