I’m hoping you are right Amber. I have a number of what I feel are interesting crosses that I made from 2001-2003 that got lost in a move and were found last fall. After performing the sink/float test I selected random seeds from each cross and cut them open. Surprisingly there were a very high percentage that had what appeared to be viable embryos so I’m keeping my finger
On a tangent… Just how accurate is the float/sink test really, and to what extent would one expect it to apply to dessicated seeds?? I’ve heard that the real efficacy is a bit questionable, and I just wonder if it would have any basis where dried seeds are involved…
Regarding float test, see:
I can only speak from my recent experience. I used approximately the same sized seeds from sinkers and floaters. Random selection of seeds from both groups showed that the floaters had no embyos while sinkers had plump, white embryos…not a scientific test at all. All of the seeds used in sink/float ‘test’ were from modern roses/crosses. I don’t use the test for species roses or miniature roses as their seeds tend to be generally smaller than modern hybrid seeds.
Today more germination from more of the 4-6 year old seeds:
Cardinal Hume OP
Mystic Meidilland OP
I’m hoping for some germination of old seeds from planned crosses soon.
What is different between rose seed conditions in 1937 and today?
One possibility is that the years of selecting mainly for flower form since 1937 has resulted in many lines that have lost the ability to form viable seeds.
Another possibility is that the chemicals being sprayed on roses today cause many seeds to be formed defective (either due to some charasteric of the chemical - such as being a systemic or because the chemical killed off the friendly bugs that kept the seed damaging “bad” bugs at bay).
Of possible interest is the following recent paper about Oak seeds.
http://www.rngr.net/Publications/tpn/46/46_4_143_147.PDF/file
"Regardless of the cause, use of the float method as a means
of ascertaining acorn condition can be expected to result in the rejection of, on average, approximately half of the sound acorns in a collection."
Link: www.rngr.net/Publications/tpn/46/46_4_143_147.PDF/file
I’m glad to see this link. I didn’t get my crosses from last year processed, and I had thought they might be dead. This gives me hope to go and try to get them started.
As to the sink/float test, I know that it can vary in effectiveness as to variety. But I have also saved myself from wasted time and hope, if I had enough seeds to test the floaters for viable embryos by slicing a few open. If there isn’t any in the floaters I test, I’ll check further.
I’ve also done the same on the sinkers (usually some embryo present).
Finally, some germination from old seeds from planned crosses. First of these is Leverkusen x Lichtk
Well, after six months of stratification, germination seems to be speeding up. Today’s germinations from seeds 3-4 years old:
Carefree Wonder OP
Christopher Columbus (striped floribunda) OP
Rose Gilardi (Moore’s striped miniature) OP
New Dawn x Commander Gillette
I’m excited about the ND x CG seedlings. It would be great to get some thornless canes, excellent disease resistance and repeat bloom. I’m not too concerned about flower color or form in this F1 generation. Hoping for something to use as breeding stock. A wonderful flower would be too much to hope for initially. I would also hope for some nice striped seedlings from RG and/or CC. CW could throw something interesting as well. Looking at the lineage of CC I couldn’t figure out where the striping came from.
I forgot one:
Seafoam x Applejack
A semi to double flower, repeat bloom, clean foliage and winter hardiness would be nice traits from this cross. This was another cross I hoped would germinate.
Germination today from old seeds from a planned cross: Golden Celebration x Illusion. Hoping for OGR type bloom, fragrance, disease reistance, and hardiness in anything but pink or white.
Those sound like some fun crosses Rob. Somehow I don’t see yellow coming out of ‘Illusion’ but anything is possible in roses.
At least you know the next generation will have a better shot at yellow in the offspring.
You know, it’s really good to know that you can actually store away your hips if you get busy or something. I’d have thought some germination would be possible after 1 or 2 years, but it’s surprising to me to hear how good germination seems to be on hips that old.
I agree Robert, yellow might not be a result from ‘Illusion’. I’d be very happy with peach tho.
Amber, I’m not getting a high percentage of germination from these old seeds but I’m thrilled that there was any germination at all. If I’m lucky the percentage will increase over the next few weeks.
Today from the 2003 seeds: ‘Folksinger’ x ‘Lemon Delight’ I’m hoping for yellow/peach coloring, moss from Moore’s Lemon Delight and disease resistance and hardiness from Buck’s Folksinger on a plant of smaller stature.
So far I’m not getting huge numbers from each cross from old seeds but I’m getting more than I had hoped for. I think it’s worthwhile to use seeds that are old and have been stored in a dry condition. Looks like there is nothing to lose.
Not to be left out… ‘Dornroschen’ OP seedling germination today.
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I’m having good germination from old ‘Leverkusen’ x ‘Lichtkonigin Lucia’ seeds but unfortunately the majority seem to suffer from mildew. I have a couple that seem unaffected. I’ll keep growing all on to evaluate further in hopes that the 90+ degree/humid weather is a major cause of the mildew. I am disappointed tho from what I’ve seen so far in the way of mildew resistance as I’m hoping for a nice hary yellow from the group.
A couple of seedlings from Rose Gilardi have bloomed and both are striped. One is red/orange with yellow/cream stripes and semi-double. The other is a mauve/lavender with lighter stripes and is semi-double to double. The lavender striped one appears to be a miniature and the other will be bigger. There are several others about to bloom and one or more might have stripes. These are my first striped seedlings and I was pretty excited to see them when they bloomed. I hope to have pics to post soon.
I also have a yellow seedling from Mystic Meidiland that has several leaves that are variegated. I’m watching this to see if it they are freak leaves or if this is a permanent trait.
Pretty exciting stuff for a change. These are all from the batch of seeds from a few years ago.
First of the Pink Meidiland x Nitida Defender and Russelliana OP seeds have started germinating. Hoping for a semi-double, with an ‘eye’, and healthy leaves. This should be hardy and crossing PM with ND (R. nitida x ‘Hansa’) I’m hoping for some rebloom. If not in the F1 then maybe F2.
Today’s germination is ‘Graham Thomas’ x ‘Goldmoss’. Eight months in the fridge and this is the first germination. Hoping for a yellow OGR bloom with lots of moss.