The more I read about the scots roses the more I think they have some real potential. Does anyone have some experience they can share on these roses? One of the things I am finding fustrating is that it appears the same name is being used for multiple cultivars. Am I wrong in assumeing most of these are tetraploid because it seems as if most of them should be.
Supposedly most are tetraploid.
Youāre right, much more work could be done.
They are underutilized and have much to offer. Iāve never worked directly with the species.
Iāve worked with āInnocenceā, (a purported descendant through R. hibernica), āGolden Wingsā, and a tiny bit with āStanwell Perpetualā.
Innocence does look interesting I was thinking of using something that comes more directly out of Rosa spinosissima. I did consider āStanwell Perpetualā but decided against it because of reports about disease problems. Golden wings does look nice especially with Rosa spinosissima twice and R. xanthina in its parentage. Idealing I would want something that makes a small shrub that has some fall coloring. I was thinking maybe Mrs. Colville, William III, Invertilis, Fenja, Kakwa or Beauty of Leafland.
Beauty of leafland is the only one that I can find that I see has autumn foliage color.
Their was also a web site on scots roses that has Mary Queen of scots as a flower with purple flowers with a white reverse but this does not match any mary queen of scots that are in commerce it seems. This rose I would deffently want to know more about. The web site is by Peter D. A. Boyd.
Try Harisonās Yellow. Iāve germinated a few, and oneās looking very pretty with all its spines and beautiful foliage. Iāve heard that it only makes cream colored or light yellow rosesā¦ but, I donāt care much for that. I was mostly interested in raising anything from Harisonās Yellow.
From what I understand, Stanwell Perpetual doesnāt breed at all, with very few exceptions. Buck breed from it, but I donāt know what or when. I think itās somewhere in Carefree Beautyās lineage.
The current issue of The OGR & Shrub Journal, a publication of the American Rose Society, Volume 4, Issue 4 is all about Scots (a.k.a.spinosissimas) roses. A very interesting read.
I have heard that Stanwell Perpetual is female sterile, but was somewhat pollen fertile, if you were able collecet some.
I was able to collect very little this year and I used it on one of my seedlings. The hips seam to be swelling, so Iām cautiously optimistic. If the cross does produce seeds, itāll be interesting to see if the seeds germinate.
Suzanne is in the lineage of Carefree Beauty through Prairie Princess. I donāt beleave Stanwell Perpetual is Carefree Beautyās lineage.
Iāve got a seedling now using Stanwell as pollen parent, at least it should be a hybrid. Itās not what I would have expected phenotypically. Hopefully time will tell.
In my opinion, āStanwell Perpetualā is likely the Spiniosissima in the pedigree of āSuzanneā. The foliage colour of the two cultivars is similar, and it would explain where the pink colour in the flowers of āSuzanneā comes from.
Paul,
It is certainly possible that Stanwell Perpetual is a parent of Suzanne. In that case it would be in the lineage of Carefree Beauty.
Adam,
Where did you hear that SP is prone to disease? From what Iāve read it has been pretty healthy. That was one of reasons I used it, along with it being fairly hardy.
Just goes to show that a roses resistance can vary from place to place.
I was able to use BofL pollen on several plants this year.
Based on the pictures on HMF, the fall foliage is stunning.
I hope that is passed on to the seedlings.
Adam
I have as āPimpinellifolia Single Redā aka Single Cherry or Red Nelly that is similar to Boydās āMary Queen of Scotsā with same white reverse.
Got it from
Rozenkwekerij de Bierkreek, Nederland
Paul I read it in one of Peter D. A. Boyd papers. I donāt know which one he has twenty or so on scots roses. His papers are what got me interested in the subject.
SP is very BS prone in MD.
Mary Queen of Scotts is very healthy and tha flowers are quite big and very charming. It sets up tonns of hips ans suckers a lot. Another one that is VERY beautiful and healthy id Doorenbos Selection.
Olga
Iāll have to check into Peter D.A. Boydās papers as Iām interested in scots roses also. Thatās to bad about SP being very BS prone. The seedling that I used itās pollen on isnāt the most resistant either, but has other qualities that I liked and wanted to expand on.
I put Golden Wings onto Belle Epoque x Belle Epoque this year. Lets hope it takes =)
So far for me, Golden Wings is pollen fertile but seedlings tend to be weak, heavily pricked, pale even when used with strongly colored seed parents.
There are a significant number of non-remontant seedlings in the F1.
Thereās enough progress to go forward with it but itās not the easiest parent to work with.
Ah, I see. Im mainly curious really. Belle Epoque x Belle Epoque has massive rebloom potential in a rare color combo, so Ive been putting tons of stuff on it this year, including Golden Wings =)
Adam,
I think that the scots roses DO still have a lot to offer hybridizers.
From observations of my direct species crosses and also from studying pedigrees of some successful roses, I would suggest combining roses having heavy scots rose influence with roses having heavy influence from either rugosa or wichuraiana (or both - kordesii derivatives). I think that these combinations should produce great things.
I have F1 rugosa X spinosissima that are sterile and presumably triploid, but have expanded from 3 initial plants to cover an area at least 12 ft X 12 ft. Rugosa and spinosissima genes definitely play VERY well together (almost too well ;0).
I have less support for the wichuraiana /spinosissima combination since Iāve yet to be able to directly cross these two species. But, from studying pedigrees for a number of years, Iāve gotten the impression that spinosissima derived roses work well in combination with roses close to the Synstylae species (wichuraiana hybrids, polyanthas, etc.)
Obviously you could try direct crosses between the species, but by using repeat blooming derivatives, I think youād still get a lot of the desired āspecies combination effectā while having a much better chance of getting [the mass appeal of] rebloom.
Best of luck to ya, Tom
Carefree Marvel and White Drift may be good substitutes for Rosa wichurana if that is the side you are having issues in getting.
I say Golden Wings for the first time the other day. It is a simple but beautiful rose.
Golden Wings is among my oldest roses. It is 15 or so years old, and always puts out a ton of color w/ very little care at all.
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