I have seen very little posted on the subject of rust on seedlings. Do they grow out of it at all? or is it a forever reoccurring problem? Do parents that rust usually produce offspring that are prone to rust outbreaks? How much rust is acceptable, or is it an all or nothing issue? To me it does seem like one of the harder to control diseases once it gets embedded, and under stress many roses rust. But some roses do seem more like repeat customers/carriers, regardless of weather or stress. I made the mistake last year of using some Marilyn Monroe pollen, to see what it does, and the two offspring that I kept have rust big time right now. Are there species that are not susceptible to rust at all? When I lived in Wisc/Minn I don’t remember seeing rust at all on the few roses we had, but it seems like the native specie near by did have rust.
From what I have seen, it runs in certain lines and it is often a localized problem to niches. So when it is a problem for a specific region, its a major problem. But the rest of the world wouldnt even know to care. However, “the rest of the world” will still see it in some very specific roses. Roses stemming from Spartan are a prime example. I think it runs in some specific species but I am unsure of the exact pattern yet. I do know 2 things are true. 1. It exists readily in the native population of roses of NW Oregon from the Cinnamonae family (ie. R. woodsii, R. gymnocarpa, R. pisocarpa, R. acicularis, R. nutkana) but not roses otherwise naturalized here (R. multiflora, R. canina, Dorothy Perkins, etc. 2. When it exists on a rose specifically prone to it (like Electron, for example), it will readily spread to all roses nearby. It spreads very readily by proximity. The relation is so visible that its like looking at the radius of an earthquake from above.
So that is why the topic is hit or miss, because that is how the disease operates culturally.
Playboy and many of its offspring are notorious for rust in these parts. Simplicity dies from it. Many of Moore’s hybrid Bracteatas rust so badly because of Playboy’s genes.
So…what youre saying is that Playboy has rusty jeans?
I dont recall Iceberg having complaints to rust. Maybe that gives us a clue as to what the other half of Simplicity is. We knows its an “unknown red HT”. I am guessing that Playboy gots its proneness to rust through City of Leeds, a Spartan hybrid. Chanelle also has several doses of Spartan in it. It makes me wonder what red HT line Simplicity is from. Whatever it is, it is in some of the most modern J/P HT’s out there, such as Pope John Paul II. I am not sure if any of those get rust though.
I have not seen rust on Pope JPII at all. Iceberg rarely rusts, and there are thousands and thousands of them planted in San Diego county. I just went through the descendant lineage of Spartan and found that I have about 10 roses descended from that line and about 5 of them are rust magnets. These are generally the ones that do rust first and worst. Marilyn Monroe, Hot cocoa,About Face,Singing in the Rain and Pretty Lady have been the worst. The last two do resist it somewhat–the other main offender is Dream Come True, spring and fall, which isn’t listed as a descendant but has alot of unknown in it. I was not aware that rust was so inheritable. Thank you-I learned something new and am glad I asked!
Nooooooooo!!! Not Pretty Lady =( Bummer. Dream Come True has that same quilted, boxy foliage just like the Pot o’ Gold descendants, Singin in the Rain, Rotary Sunrise and Especially for You. Maybe it is related to one of them. Koko Loco comes out next year, so I guess we might know since it is both descended from Pot o’ Gold AND Playboy 
Everyone is raving about this new intro because theyre excited about the color + class, but combining Angel Face, Playboy, Crystalline, Whisky Mac and Eurose into one place is a bit scary. Blackspot, winter die back and mildew – oh my! Lets add in rust for good measure.
Koko Loco has all of those in it? ARGH! Talk about making the blind man, deaf! That’s worse than my talking about mixing Ballerina and The Fairy!
Both of which grow pretty cleanly here 
The Fairy is fairly clean here. Ballerina, no! Mildew on all flower parts; gets huge; lots of dead leaves caught in the bramble growth all the time. The worst are the horrid prickles they both have. Hate them both! Add Margot Koster and you have the unholy trinity!
LOL… will send you over a ‘Wedding Day’ and all will be forgiven.
Pretty Lady (5 of them)in it’s defense, was planted in a challenging position-next to a fresh concrete foundation, hot reflective sun all day, next to a hot sidewalk (more reflective heat) and that probably had a lot to do with it getting rust and totally defoliating and then getting rose slugs that skeletonized the new foliage and 2-3 of them gave up the ghost. I don’t blame the rose-these were planted at a relatives place and they should have been cared for better-I ended up replacing them with privet and cousin anonymous wasn’t able to kill those. She did keep several roses in the back yard (Gemini) alive and well.
It appears a line of rust may have been established with Baby Chateau. In the first three generations, these are the worst rust offenders in my experience. Independence, Geranium Red, Floradora, Baccara, Korona, Queen Elizabeth, Camelot, Delta Queen, Europeana, Fragrant Cloud, Iobelle, Kordes Perfecta, Lady Iliffe, Les Sjulin, Lili Marleen, Maria Callas, Marian Anderson, Merci, Mister Chips, Ole, Orange Silk, Oriental Charm, Piccadilly, Rose of Tralee, Rumba, Scarlet Knight, Sea Pearl, Showbiz, Suspense, Swarthmore, Sweet Vivien. Dornroschen is a pretty bad rust offender here, probably because of prematurely aging foliage in a too-long growing season.
Little Darling, Winifred Coulter, Orangeade, Quinceanera, Utro Moskvy, Alec’s Red, Bambi, Charles de Gaulle, Charm of Paris, Cocktail, Dame de Coeur, Dottie Louise, Gardens of the World, Goldbush, Horstmann’s Rosenresli, Mel’s Heritage, Mint Julep, Polonaise, Roundelay haven’t demonstrated rust issues in my garden nor in The Huntington Gardens when I had opportunities to play there. I haven’t included any of the Moore roses bred from the line because his worst rust offenders have tended to not be of this line, except for the Bracteata and Rugosa hybrids, which, to my thinking, were expressing more conflicting foliage information due to the combination of the species with the “modern” leaves.
I looked up Wandrin Wind’s parentage and it has Baby Chateau multiple times, appearing on both sides. 'Wanderin' Wind' rose lineage I loved Wandrin Wind’s growth habit and how it flowered along the ends of the canes like a hollyhock, but I simply could not keep foliage on it.
Not related to Baby Chateau, but still a great rust offender here, Moonsprite, though drop dead gorgeous, requires spraying.
Morden Ruby was simply terrible in the Santa Clarita Valley, where only the worst offenders rusted. I loved the heavily veined flowers, but the foliage rusted as quickly and easily as Conrad Ferdinand Meyer and the other hybrid Rugosas of his type. 'Morden Ruby' rose lineage It, unfortunately, has Fashion, one of the most infamous rust buckets in modern roses. Other than Morden Blush, which was one of the most bullet proof roses I’ve ever grown, Arkansana hybrids have been as disease prone here as Nutkana hybrids. As if, like the Rugosas, the foliage simply outlives its juvenile state where it is healthy, and refuses to drop when the geriatric stage hits and disease is required to force the plant to shed foliage.
I was trying to figure out the origin as well. I mean, I suppose a weakness could occur at any point in breeding but it felt like a pattern was being established.
I think roses like Margo Koster and Mother’s Day are really cute… but they become snow balls by August. I grew Orange Triumph at one point. It was a beautiful 4’ x 4’ ball of snow and fire haha. I have no idea how Orange Triumph was labeled as a polyantha. Its bigger than Ballerina or Eva! I can only assume any color listed as orange was a polyantha by association.
I don’t think the shrub category was as frequently used when the Kosters arrived. Plus, polys were “the thing”. Here, Eva can easily be six by six feet. Horrible old Ballerina can EASILY climb trees as a brambly, mildewy, debris laden tangle. I can’t stand Margo because of her stale canteloupe color, particularly against the harsh yellow-green foliage; total failure to dump her used tissue petals; ever-present mildew and whole scale die back. The flower form doesn’t help, either. Ironically, it’s a favorite with several clients who insist it remain in their gardens because of a deceased relative whose name was Margot. I’ve been hoping to come up with a suitable seedling to name Margot so I can dump the Koster!
The ImKoster, perhaps? haha
I was just wondering what the decision process was for not labeling Orange Triumph, Eutin a “Hybrid Musk”. It seems like the classification process was all over the place for similar roses of that era/lineage.
Oh, yeah! Hybrid Musk, Hybrid Multiflora, you name it. It all depends (and depended)upon what the breeder/introducer decided would sell the plant best. I can understand why they didn’t use Hybrid Musk. There has always been a mind set about what those should look like, and Orange Triumph looks nothing like that. I doubt it would have been well received if called that. It grew like a poly and was descended from them and the introducer probably felt that classification would result in the plant being purchased, planted and accepted. If you were expecting a Ballerina or Penelope type plant and flower and installed an Orange Triumph, wouldn’t you have been disappointed? More people were buying polys and it does fit there better than anywhere else.
(I like your ‘Im Koster’, BTW. I just may use that when it happens! LOL!)
I think the confusion is that Ballerina seems to operate differently there cause it grows identical to Orange Triumph here. All of the poly-descended “HMusks” do (like Prosperity). I think it is specifically the color that set the decision one way or another, so I agree with that it seemed to have to do with market. The Trier types are definitely different. I think it helps that Trier is much like a dwarf, self-supporting multiflora with a touch of romantic charm. It is also cleaner here.
Its all rather pointless now since the majority of their useful genetics are now everywhere, lol. Its funny how it was the dull-toned Eva that broadcast orange everywhere yet the obvious orange tone of roses like Margot Koster really didnt make it far.
It’s really funny how climate affects growth, isn’t it? Prosperity is now about 8’ x 12’ and four feet deep on a garden wall in Valencia. The Ballerina had eaten the rear kitchen wall and had to be cut off the roof regularly. Margo is about four by four, by four and doesn’t get much more even if left unwhacked. Eva stayed nearly six by six until she went away. If there is a proclivity to climb, we force it with our thirteen month growing season, relentless sun and extreme warmth. Even with very sharp pruning shears, they climb like multiflora. Now, it should be obvious why the “mannerly four by four” English roses are used to slip cover garages here.
Yeah, my gf and I like to watch trashy reality shows (I know, I know. Thats why my brain rotted.) and one of them is Celebrity Rehab, which is set in Southern Cali. I am always amazed by some of the hillsides seen on the shows there because it looks like the jolly green giant hurled all over them with miracle gro. Its especially amazing cause Oregon is not exactly slow or void of green, lol.
Excuse the “garden art”, but this is a one gallon, unirrigated, hardware store bougainvillia. It has usually been whacked out of the power lines by the Department of Water and Power. It’s probably the only thing preventing the south side of the hill from sliding! LOL!