Thank you for the well-wishes @RikuHelin ! I never would have thought to cycle if it hadn’t been for reading posts on this forum, including your experiments!
Seven cycles is impressive! If it’s a really special cross it’s definitely worth the patience and effort. Congratulations on your seedlings!
1 Like
As the temperatures rise here, it’s time for me to consider that germination season is basically over for this spring.
Here’s a recap:
12 seedlings of Jean de Luxembourg× Glorious Babylon Eyes made it and overall have a nicer habit than last year’s when I used Raspberry Kiss pollen.
Out of the 14 germinations of Will Alderman×Orienta Aylin, only 5 have survived to true leaf stage. These are now growing nicely.
The first seedling in the Roseraie de l’Haÿ × OA batch died, but another three made it, so it looks like that cross won’t have been completely in vain: the seedlings are growing very vigorously.
Mont Blanc × EfY, Snow Pavement × EfY and Snow Pavement × GBE have entirely refused to germinate.
I tried multiple cycles of cold, an extra oxyclean bath, and even sticking an old banana skin in there with the Mont Blanc seeds in the hope that ethylene might help, but nothing happened. The seeds still look good, just not germinating. Just for the sake of experiment, I tried something I read about on another forum: depilatory cream. It contains potassium thioglycolate, which dissolves hairs and supposedly also, the bonds in the seed coat. 10mn exposure was recommended on “difficult” seeds, and germination was supposed to happen 1 week later. But nothing happened. I will put them back in the fridge on the off chance that they might wake up next year.
This morning I noticed one of the JdL×GBE seedlings has a bud. This one’s foliage texture is not the best compared to some of its siblings, but I’ll keep any seedlings that display juvenile bloom!
5 Likes
I forgot to update, but that bloom opened:
It’s not a big blotch but it’s there, and more blooms are appearing this week. I wasn’t expecting a single from this cross, both parents have more petals, but it might evolve with time. Thorny to the gills, very mild fragrance only and the foliage is barely textured, but I could still work with this. I’ll try to put White Roadrunner pollen on it when it gets a bit bigger. I’m also putting White Roadrunner pollen on last year’s JdL × Raspberry Kiss seedling.
I’m surprised at the difference between last year’s JdL seedlings (3/4 were juvenile bloomers) and this year’s (1/12). I guess GBE didn’t pass along the juvi bloom very well, but at least I got a blotch from it.
I’ll move forward with what’s available!
Another potentially interesting development in this category:
Nigel Hawthorne’s spring flush is finished, so I started cutting him back when I noticed what appears to be a hip, or certainly the closest thing to a hip I’ve ever seen on him. It’s probably going to shrivel and yellow soon, and it’s probably seedless anyway, but I can’t help but feel a tiny bit of hope.
9 Likes
I think the fact that we do this at all, makes us all a naturally optimistic group 
5 Likes
Good luck, SeasideRooftop! Nigel formed many empty hips for me over the years. I miss Nigel. It was the best garden plant for Southern California of any of the early Hulthemia seedlings. Healthy, gorgeous and it would “repeat” when grown in beach climates where Banksiaes and many fruit types “thought” it remained “Spring” for many months.
2 Likes
Thanks @roseseek !
I had read a couple of forum posts about empty/failing hips on Nigel, but they’re “Anonymous” now, so I never knew who posted them… perhaps it was you? Anyway that’s why I don’t expect much from this hip, but there’s always a small chance I guess.
Nigel has a short season here, about a month and then by mid-May we hit summer temps (expected to reach 32°c this week!) and it’s over.
I tried dumping pollen on practically every single bloom Nigel made this spring in vain, except for one branch that had snaked around the back of another pot, and that one branch is where the only hip formed… The irony.
I read a suggestion that perhaps not emasculating the blooms might help with takes; I’ll try that next year.
In your experience, did Nigel’s empty hips change color or stay green?
@lee_hull Agreed! Fingers crossed!
2 Likes
@SeasideRooftop they remained green. Tigris pollinated best when not emasculated to there is that. I pimped a lot of its pollen with no results, but I was trying to find mates which could have created healthy offspring. Now, I would try it on every known “rabbit on fertility drugs” mate I could find. If you have seed parents you find agreeable to nearly everything you put in them, try Nigel with them. ANY success you experience is one more than anyone else has.
2 Likes
Thanks so much for your advice Roseseek!
I tried putting Nigel’s pollen on things I perceived as “related”, mainly rugosas and hulthemia hybrids. The hulthemia hybrids refused it, but I’m still holding out some hope for a couple of the rugosas and randoms I did towards the end.
Next year I’ll follow your advice and just use his pollen on my most fertile roses, regardless of what they are.
2 Likes
A few updates, it’s been a while:
That OP NH hip shrivelled, and his pollen failed to fertilize any of the roses I’d tried it on. I’ll try again this spring.
2024 was not a good year for hybridizing for me due to a lot of travel and various hectic circumstances. Still, a few things in this category worked out!
Roseraie de l’Haÿ: Rdl’H is frustrating in that I very rarely get takes, but when she does form a hip it is fully ripe in 60 days and seeds germinate very well. On the downside, none of RdlH’s offspring so far have shown juvenile bloom, but I held on to the three toughest ones to see what they’ll do in their second year.
In 2024 I had only one successful take on Rdl’H after countless tries. Pollen was from Alissar Princess of Phoenicia. Here’s the largest one, which germinated in December:
Also pollinated Orienta Aylin and Glorious Babylon Eyes with various rugosa pollen. OA gave me good germination, GBE much less. Unfortunately, I was unable to do the reverse crosses due to my frequent absences last year. All the seedlings from these are still germinating now, so too early to tell if anything good will come out of them.
Finally, that one seedling of JdL×GBE I had pictured in a May 2024 post has shown healthy, vigorous growth and reblooms well, and the blotch has intensified. It even has a little bit of fragrance. I plan to use it extensively in 2025 for further crosses in this category.
14 Likes
Also a little update from me. The photos show a very young seedling of ‘Eye of the Tiger’ X Strandperle ® Norderney’ with a juvenile bud.
7 Likes
That’s really cool @Roseus !
Very exciting to see juvenile bloom in this category. It’s interesting to me that Eye of the Tiger was the mother.
I am finding that my results this year are very different from previous years, when I was using the rugosa as the seed parent. There seem to be significantly more juvenile bloomers when using the hulthemia hybrid as the mother. It doesn’t make much sense to me, but the difference is very clear. Most of my Orienta Aylin × Snow Pavement and OA × White Roadrunner seedlings are showing buds at the 4-5 leaf stage.Bh contrast, none of the many seedlings with Roseraie de l’Hay or Will Alderman as the mother seem to have juvenile bloom.
On the other hand, the foliage is more “rugose” when using the rugosa as the seed parent. I don’t understand why that is either, but it is what I have observed.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you that this seedling has a blotch!
2 Likes
Hello SeasideRooftop!
Thank you for your interest and observation feedback! Unfortunately, I have despite several previous attempts not yet succeeded in getting a juvenile flower in any combination of Hulthemia and Rugosa hybrids and vice versa. So this is a first for me. I’ll let you know as soon as the blossom opens.
The very few other seedlings of the last years I got from HulthemiasxRugosas and backwards were without exception unattractive in growth and weak with poor root formation, so I didn’t keep them. They didn’t flower in the first year.
2 Likes
Hello SeasideRooftop!
I’ll get back to you as promised regarding the‘Eye of the Tiger’ X Strandperle ® Norderney’ seedling. The first juvenile flower has opened today. It comes in an apricot color, has a strong fruity scent and contains 12 petals. There is also a slight hint of a blotch. It remains to be seen whether it will intensify as it progresses.
13 Likes
The HINT is a lovely staining pattern. Holymoly!
1 Like
Congratulations on this seedling @roseus!
That is a beautiful color and I’d bet the blotch will get stronger over time. I’m especially impressed that it has strong fragrance, that’s been very elusive for my seedlings in this category. Well done!
I hope it continues to grow well and stays healthy!
2 Likes
That’s a pretty seedling, Roseus! Are you seeing any signs of hybridization in it? Everything looks modern in it. I guess everything’s possible, but I wouldn’t expect this color and form in a close soecies hybrid, especially from a heavily pigmented seed parent. Either way, it’s always exciting to see new blooms!
1 Like
I would like to give a brief follow-up on the illustrated seedling, 19. Apr, of ‘Eye of the Tiger’. The second flower is a little more pink and the very slight signs of a blotch have faded. The little, tiny plant has hardly grown at all and the rooting leaves a lot to be desired.
‘Eye of the Tiger’ has limited fertility, which is always evident when used as a seed parent. The seeds rarely germinate and the seedlings are usually of low or malformed growth. The matter looks much better as pollen donor. This lineage situation is very similar to the variety ‘Rasperry Kiss’, which is hardly surprising since both cultivars are from the same breeder and even the same breeding year.
@jAc123 : You’re right that everything in it looks modern! That has not and will never change.
3 Likes
Hi @Roseus !
Thank you for sharing this update!
I think the bloom may still evolve, and you may only see it’s “final form” next year. As the temperature rises, the blotch may look even less intense or even disappear completely, but the genetics is in there, and as long as the seedling is healthy it may be worth keeping for further crosses.
To illustrate, this is the evolution of the JdL×GBE seedling I had pictured previously in this thread. First pic was its first bloom, second was in late fall, third pic was early April this year. However now, as the UV index has risen to 9 and temps are 27-28°c, the blooms currently look like the last pic! But it has health and fertility, and carries the right genes, so it will be used for further crosses to work towards the goal.
I ended up discarding all but one of this year’s Orienta Aylin seedlings in this category for all the reasons you listed: low vigor, bad roots, and also powdery mildew. I did keep one blotched OA× Snow Pavement but it is honestly not so great and unless it shows exceptional heat tolerance this summer, it will go too.
This year I’ve returned to using the rugosas as the seed parent almost exclusively, because I find the seedlings are just a lot better in that direction. Among other things, I used pollen from the pictured JdL×GBE seedling on Snow Pavement and several hips have formed… I hope things will get interesting next year!
6 Likes
Update:
The seedling of RdlH × Alissar, Princess of Phoenicia pictured in my February 2025 post has bloomed! This is the first time I’ve had a seedling of RdlH that blooms within it’s first year (9½ months).
Sure, that bloom doesn’t look very nice but it can evolve and it does have a blotch! Oh and it has really great fragrance!
Foliage is very glossy and only slightly “rugose”, and annoyingly the leaves tend to stay somewhat unopened, a trait that several seedlings of Rdl’H×hulthemias have displayed.
Still haven’t reached my goal of a blotched rose with truly rugosa foliage, but I’m starting to have a decent handful of seedlings from these crosses that have the desired genetics and first year bloom, and am very excited for the possibilities they may offer for next year!
14 Likes
Very unique foliage, love it!
2 Likes