Karl,
It just seems odd that none of his roses have survived in commerce or are listed in someone’s garden on HMF. I wish there had been more disclosed/published about the miniature F1 from White Mountains. The possibilities for that one fascinates me.
Rob
Not really odd at all, Rob. Many who have created neat sounding roses either too jealously held on to them so they never saw the light of day outside of their gardens or didn’t sufficiently spread them far enough to insure their survival. Louis Stoddard created some really interesting sounding Arkansana hybrids which also appear lost. Much has been accomplished. Unfortunately, too little of it survives. That was Ralph Moore’s greatest fear.
That make sense Kim. I’m coming from a point of view that I want to spread mine far and wide. 
Agreed. Not only obscure, “extinct” things I unearth, but things of my own I hope others might enjoy and find useful. It is honestly quite a thrill to see your “babies” travel more widely than you have. I received notice recently they’ve traveled from The Netherlands to New Zealand and to a private collector in Japan.
That’s awesome Kim! I can only hope some of mine travel likewise. 
Thank you! It wouldn’t have happened had it not been for Bierkreek.
I keep coming back to this very informative thread even though it’s an old one.
Also, I keep browsing HMF as well as nursery websites for rugosa hybrids that might be useful towards my goal.
@SalixGoclon, I know it was ages ago but you said :
“Darn. What I really want is a thornless mini with crinkled leaves.”
I don’t know where you are based or if this is still of interest to you, but I found Short Track which seems to fit that description to a T :
Available from several nurseries in Europe, don’t know about elsewhere.
Lotty’s Love is pretty short for a rugosa. White Roadrunner is a true dwarf rugosa. LL is commercially sold still. WR is sold at Freedom Gardens, but you have to order in advance.
I like them both quite a bit. They don’t eat up my space and they’re cute.
Both a prickly things, of course.
There is also 1 or 2 semi-dwarf Bugnet rugosas out there. I had one of the rare ones, but unfortunately left behind in a relationship. RIP lol
Just by chance, I have added an article by J H Nicolas about the Hybrid Perpetuals. He included some Hybrid Rugosas.The same pillar treatment may be applied to some hybrids of Rugosa, so hybridized that the Rugosa features are much obliterated and the Hybrid Perpetual characters have become predominant: Conrad F. Meyer, Nova Zembla, Turke’s Samling, Nemo, Mme. Julien Potin, Ruskin, etc.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/NicolasHPs1929/NicolasHPs1929.html
Then there is also a paper by Horibe et al. regarding rebloom from non-Chinensis roses, including Rugosa.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/HoribeRoseRebloom2015.html
All of the listed above have EXTREME rust susceptibility in arid climates. They may be great for Arctic hardiness but if you live where rust is an issue, RUN in the opposite direction! And, they WON’T tolerate being sprayed. Been there, tried it.
It looks like Nicolas was working for Conard-Pyle (Pennsylvania) at the time he wrote, so maybe ruse isn’t such a problem there.
Come to think of it, one of the reasons HTs finally gained acceptance from some of the old HP-purists was that the Tea influence brought rust resistance. I guess ‘Conrad F. Meyer’ just didn’t get enough Tea-blood from ‘Gloire de Dijon’.
MOLECULAR GENETIC STUDIES ON CONTINUOUS-FLOWERING ROSES THAT DO NOT ORIGINATE FROM ROSA CHINENSIS
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/HoribeRoseRebloom2015.html
“Recently, a French rose group conducted KSN genotyping of a wide range of rose cultivars and found that some ‘Damask’-related roses (e.g., ‘Damask’, ‘Moss’, ‘Hybrid musk’, and ‘Bourbon’ roses) and Asian roses (e.g., ‘Hybrid rugosa’ and ‘Hybrid bracteata’ roses) are CF but have no mutated allele of KSN from R. chinensis (Araou, 2011). Because the ‘Hybrid rugosa’ roses are originated from East Asian species R. rugosa, and the species has CF behavior, we hypothesize that their CF behaviors have a different genetic origin from R. chinensis. The objective of this study is to (i) test the hypothesis by genotyping KSN genes of R. rugosa. We also aim to (ii) test the possible involvement of KSN in the regulation of CF behavior in R. rugosa. Except for R. chinensis, there is no report on the genetic determinism of CF behavior in other rose species. This is a first step to uncover the genetic determinism of CF behavior in R. rugosa.”
Meyer got NO rust resistance and neither did anything Austin mined from it. Meyer would rust. I tried spraying it and all the foliage turned yellow and fell. It grew new, which rusted, eventually yellowed and fell. I tried pulling diseased foliage off but the blood loss was too offensive. I finally cured it with steel…shovel.
No, they rust here too. There are a bajillion acicularis planted at a local Walmart. All rusted. Pretty orange flowers every summer! 
30 minutes east of a massive rainforest, and even have their own water system. All of them rust.
I’ve Hansa and Schneezwerg for breeding purposes in my garden. Last year I’ve done several crossings with different types of roses, both with Hansa as a seed parent and a pollen parent. All my beautiful seedlings I had died of - what I think was - damp off. My other crossings didn’t have any problem. Only the ones with Hansa in it. I’ve put Hansa to the side this year. When I’ve recovered from the disapointment in a few years or so, I’ll give it another go 
This year I’m preparing a lot of different crossings on Schneezwerg. As a pollen parent I think it isn’t all that good. But as a seed parent I’m hoping for good results. My crossings with Schneezwerg x Thérèse Bugnet already gave beautiful orange hips and we’re still early in summer here. I’ve some modern Hulthemia hybrids as pollinators, some very disease resistant modern Kordes roses and also Tapis Volant, a - what i think is a diploid - hybrid with a lot of species blood in its parentage. Not sure what I may expect, but I’m excited. Thérèse Bugnet possibly has the most chance of giving viable offspring with Schneezwerg. That one is just to avoid disapointment
If anything comes from these crossings I’ll give an update.
nb I’ve rust in my garden on Mme. Isaac Pereire and New Dawn, but none of my Rugosas have got issues with this disease.
Coming back to this thread to rave about some very interesting newish rugosas released by DeRuiter.
The series is called Valeda and comes in a few colors: White Valeda, Light Pink Valeda (both bred circa 2009), and Pink and Purple Valeda (both bred circa 2019).
What’s interesting about them? They are all very short for this class, 50 cm except for Light Pink which goes to 70. The foliage is very nicely rugose. The breeding seems to have relied heavily on an elusive mini rugosa with very good foliage texture that I’ve been desperate to get but can’t find a seller for: Short Track, bred by Jan Kees Kraan before 2009.
White Valeda is Snow Pavement × Short Track
Light Pink Valeda is Louise Bugnet × Short Track
The more recent Pink and Purple are undisclosed but also very small so I am assuming they also have Short Track in them.
According to Bierkreek, Purple is the strongest and healthiest of the series.
Has anyone here tried these? They all look very, very nice to me.
Enjoyed seeing this old thread. (What ever happened to some of the ertwhile contributors of yesteryear? I used to enjoy really insights from Pierre and others.
Years ago, Joan Monteith shared seeds from Mr. Nash x Rugelda that gave some interesting results. (Unfortunately I lost the more interesting, due to excessive vigor but one seedling, either the one nicknamed “dirty white kleenex in barbed wire” or “Junkyard dog”, both of which were very slow to ever show color, survived and ended up in ground. It was a relatively small plant, not unattractive, and began giving reliable flushes of creamy yellow blooms as it matured, but with a somewhat unpleasant odor and was a bit BS prone in my no spray garden.)
Anyway, I wondered if anyone was doing setigera/rugosa crosses, a al Geschwind?
I’m not sure what happened to Pierre, but it looks like he has had at least one fairly recent successful introduction. I completely agree with you about his posts.
This appears to be the same variety with two selling names:
It has won at least one award: We are very proud to announce that... - Kwekerij De Bierkreek | Facebook
Just today I was wondering how to breed a rose that is both completely hardy and stays short. And if rugosas could be used.
Rugosas are such a tantalizing pain in the butt to breed with. For me it’s like an on/off switch…if it has rugose foliage it will be hardy, without juvenile bloom, and chlorotic. The iron chlorosis is the Achilles heel of rugosa roses in my area.
Maybe the Drift roses… diploids?.. could be crossed with these new dwarf rugosas.
Hybrid bracteata is pretty cool! Congrats to Pierre. (I actually assumed it might in fact have been a rugosa hybrid looking at it.) I thought the Bracteatas were quite stubborn about progeny. Did I have an erroneous impression?
Admittedly, I haven’t been on the forum much, but it seems I have missed your voice since mid-pandemic, Joe! Hope things have calmed down for you at your nursery!
I was, just today, wondering about partnering rugosas with some of Kordes’ roses. Many of them, I think, have a touch of Rugosa in them, and Kordes can hardly be accused of being known for disease-prone roses over the last couple decades. (Being a little slow to rebloom on the other hand does seem to be common for me.)
Which species/classes of roses seem to contribute good tolerance to alkalinity?