Rudolph Geschwind roses

Has anyone used any Geschwind roses in their breeding programs yet? I planted several of the hardiest about two years ago and they are very hardy for zone 4. I planted Geschwind’s Nordlandrose and Geschwind’s Orden, both are one-time bloomers and both are about 3’ X 5’. I know they can get quite large.

I think both have rugosa in their backgrounds and I was thinking of crossing them with John Davis, some of the white rugosas that repeat.

William Baffin might be a possibility, from what I’ve read, I would have to sort through many one-time bloomers.

I am considering New or White Dawn as a possible cross. Both are crown hardy here, although they are quite disease resistant and rebloom. I trying to stick with the hardy roses.

Nobody has replied to this, so I will. Geschwind’s roses are still very poorly known in Europe (probably even more so in USA). Luckily, they are starting to be available in mail-order nurseries, particularly in Germany.

So far, I have just bought a few cultivars and I’m following their hardiness and other qualities here in southern Finland. I haven’t yet done any crosses but hope to use at least Leopold Ritter (climber with stunningly beautiful dark red flowers and a strong fragrance, which is unusual in Geschwind’s roses), Nordlandrose and Himmelsauge in breeding in years to come.

The JEC/WEC embryo culture technique that I just adopted revived my interest in amateur rose breeding, because it could make it possible to get breakthrough F1 seedlings for further breeding purposes without pollinating at very large scale.




Hi Jukka,

I have only seen them in books. I’d love to see them in person some day. I remember liking one in the books called ‘Schneelicht’ (Snow Light?). I have no idea about the hardiness of Rosa phoenicia but I am sure it is at least slightly more hardy than R. moschata.

It looks like Lambert of the early 1900s used Schneelicht with Veichenblau and some random Perntiana type to create what is somewhat of a prototype of our current landscape shrubs. So it is obviously fertile and possibly useful.

Oh, I guess it is technically a pillar type. The pic on HMF looks like an OGR version of something like White Meidiland though lol.

Jadae, incidentally, Schneelich was just mentioned in the latest issue of the journal of the Finnish rose society that I got today!

There’s an article listing rugosa cultivars that repeat-flower well in Sept-Oct in our climate, and Schneelich is in that list. It is said to be hardy in southern Finland.

I can’t attest to its hardiness, but if anyone would like cuttings of Gilda, I will be happy to share. It does bloom here in the milder mountains of SoCal, but only once and it gets HUGE here. It is clean and the new growth is highly scented. It’s pretty, but not something I wish to commit resources to for so short a period of flowering and with so little level ground on the hill.


I am having a hard time believing that the rose in the photos labeled to be Geschind’s Orden is R. rugosa x R. multiflora. The characteristics just do not match up. Other than that, its really pretty.

I agree, I have a hard time believing that the Orden on HMF or in any of the rose books I

The rose pictured on Karl’s website and the rose at Elizabeth Park, from which came the pollen that I sent, are two different creatures. Unfortunately, the cultivar at Elizabeth Park is gone now, the victim of reckless pruning and mindless benefaction.

That’s too bad Orden is gone from Eliazabeth Park. I don’t think Gipsy Boy is at the Arboretum anymore either. I may get get Gipsy Boy this spring if anyplace is still selling it. I would love to get the Orden cultivar that is on Karl’s site or maybe some pollen from it.

Vintage, Eurodesert and Heirloom have it. Vintage and Eurodesert offer a discount to Help Me Find Premium members. I know Cliff has some GORGEOUS plants all ready to ship from what I’ve received.


Thanks Kim,

I see that Cliff has quite a few of Geschwind’s roses. Which is great becasue they’re hard to find otherwise. I’ll have to check them out later when I’m ready to order. I also noticed that he’s selling your Lynnie. It looks like a real winner. My Commander Gillette (Bayse’s Legacy) is quite hardy and does very well here, so Lynnie probably would do quite well here also.

Yes, and Lynnie grows like a WEED for him out there in the high desert. He raised some very intersting seedlings from her. Thanks.

Palatine sells Himmelsauge, Orden, Nordland, Prinz Hirzeprinzchen.

We currently have 14 Geschwind roses available at EuroDesert Roses:

Asta von Parpart

Aurelia Liffa

Dr. Hurta

Erinnerung an Brod

Forstmeisters Heim

Futtaker Schlingrose

Geschwind’s Orden

Geschwind’s Schoenste

Gipsy Boy


Josephine Ritter

Marie Dermar



A few are marked “sold out” but we have plants coming along for these. We will also soon announce the availability of Geschwind’s Nordlandrose No. 1 and Geschwind’s Nordlandrose No. 2, Erlkoenig, Griseldis, Nymphe Tepla, Siwa and Wodan, bringing the total number of Geschwind roses offered to 21. Most of the newest roses will be available in very limited numbers the first season.


Nordlandrose ll hybrid setigera actually did demonstrate ~80- 90% cane hardiness last spring with no protection in 09 in Canada zone 3A. For the 08 winter I protected it (peat moss covering). This rose was from Radoslav Petrovic’s nursery in Serbia - I do not know original providence.

Unfortunately Palatines Nordland (06) has never demonstrated hardiness and never bloomed in my garden. Orden will occasionally have enough old cane to bloom but I notice a lot of aborting of buds.

My other Geschwinds (labeled by vendor not me) are not hardy in zone 3a - but still grow and include Alpenfee (2008 no blooms yet), Annachen Von Tharau (tall rose relatively speaking up here - 08 planting and no blooms yet), Futtaker Schlingrose (2008 no blooms yet) Gypsy Boy (bloomed once and died in winter) and Ariana (2008 bloomed this year and you can see the blooms on helpmefind - looks like right rose and I believe the only one in Canada).

So I was thinking last night, and yeah I think too much, what Geschwind’s point of view was. I realize that this sounds silly but I find it helpful to understand crosses, as well as the era in which they were made. We all have our bias. Its a fact of life.

His crosses are all over the place, numerous and diverse. Also, quite a few of our modern roses originated from his actions. He seemed to have chosen a lot of contrasting parents. Multiflora, China, Rugosa, Tea, Canina, Scotch Briar, HWichurana, OGR… He was German/Hungarian/etc. A lot of his work seems to have been picked up by Kordes in their earlier work. It makes me wonder if Kordes would have been successful at innovation if Geschwind did not exist. Various French raisers seem to have picked up his work with multiflora, OGR and wichurana. His obvious aim was for innovation for new color (seemed to love reds), repeat, texture and hardiness. He definitely did not seem to be slowed down by ploidy or prior preconceived molds.

I wish I could read German, lol. I am sure there is more to be learned.

And now on to the related question:

Has anyone tried using Black Boy, Parkzauber, Parkjewel and/or Blue Boy? All are OGR Moss x early Floribunda and once-blooming.

Black Boy: World’s Fair x Nuits de Young. Deep purple-red. Moss.

Blue Boy: Louis Gimard x Independence. Dark purple + grey Moss.

Parkjuwel: Independence x Red Moss. Dusky cerise red.

Parkzauber: Independence x Nuits de Young. Deep cerise red/pink. Moss.

They were all bred in the 1950s, and the implication was for roses for parks, I think, which seems to be similar to Geschwind’s flow. I almost bought Blue Boy at Heirlooms last spring but I didnt want to deal with once-bloomers or mildew, lol. It looked so cool though. It would be difficult to think of where to take work like that. Thorns and large mass are not exactly the in thing. Moore’s work made moss roses far more useful in terms of color, size and health. The fragrance and romantic fullness were mostly left behind. I am not even sure if the common public likes moss roses. When I have shown others my mini mosses, I am usually excited but I have not felt they were. I think they would need a boldness, bloom size and quantity and an aesthetic plant to compete with other roses. If the scent was retained then I think that would be even better.

Oops, forgot. Blue Boy skipped out on the moss.

I’d be afraid of the Independence crosses in milder climates. Rust is a huge issue with it and from what I’ve seen with Parkzauber, Blue Boy and Black Boy I fear how many generations it might take to weed it out. It’s what kept me from doing anything with it and I was excited to have them way back when!