Wow. If Orange Surprise came through a winter where you are, Joe, I might reconsider how I’m going to use it next year. (I have yet to do any planned crosses with it, but with the exception of its propensity for mildew, it continues to surprise me quite pleasantly.)
Is it presumed to be triploid? Or anybody’s guess?
Thanks.
Re-affirmed easy zone 3 winter … R. hemisphaerica is going to bloom for the first time 11 years - yes that is right, 11 years between blooms …from Pickering in 2004 and never protected. Bloomed one bloom in 2005 and then never again until this year. And though I suppose no surprise to Scandinavians, R. pendulina proved to be hardy and blooming well.
Orange Surprise must almost certainly be a tetraploid. It comes from two tetras, and has set seed when pollinated indoors with pollen from several more. My most interesting rose at teh moment is OrSup x 1st Impression. It is a mini that has strong yellow blooms, very fertile itself (though I’ve not had it long enough to get seed germination). Plant architecture seems a problem to me, but it may straighten itself out. No BS or mildew despite growing in the midst of both. Now to get it to full size instead of mini. Nearly every cutting roots quickly, and blooms in a few weeks if grown in a warm place. I doubt that it is as winter hardy as OrSup because 1st Imp is not good even with a winter not reaching 0 F. So I’ve crossed it with Carefree Sunshine, Rainbow KO and other interesting plants to see what comes out in the next year or so.
My garden-planted OrSup got through 2 winters here with no protection and grow and bloom. Main problem, only half a dozen stamens per bloom and only 6 inch above ground, so a real pain in the back to pollinate outside. I understand why Mendel nearly went blind working on hawkweed.
This past winter, I have noticed a lot of dieback on the Brownells. The bed at Roger Williams Park with the Brownells looks like a bomb went off with winter dieback almost to ground level.
In my home garden, Rhode Island Red and Everblooming Pillar 124 are now approximately 1/2 - 2/3 of the plants’ previous height. However, Curly Pink, Early Morn, and Lafter survived the winter almost unscathed.
Andy
Joe,
Would you say that Smoothie and “Orange Surprise” are hardy to your zone 3?
Rob,
I would–crown hardy. Orange Surprise survived barely and has not thrived this summer. In two other locations, Candy Oh survived and is thriving.
Rob,
I cannot address the hardiness issue of Orange Surprise as it is not a rose I have grown. However, I have been growing Smoothie for several years now (4 summers/3 winters) and each year its performance surpasses that of the year before as it becomes better established. In my test beds (Z3B) it comes through winter with significantly more live wood than pretty much any rose that I have tested. While you have to bear in mind that the vast majority of roses sent to me for evaluation/testing are coming from locations considerably warmer than Zone 3, I consider Smoothie to be one of the best new additions for growers in colder climates. It has very decent winter hardiness. Last winter was once of the toughest we have seen for many years and while Smoothie did have considerable dieback (nearly to the ground)–pretty much all but the species roses were in the same boat this past spring, including my own seedlings that usually show far more green wood than the test roses. In spite of that, it was one of the first roses to rebound and begin to bloom (in spite of a June 1 freeze that damaged/killed new growth on almost everything) and it has bloomed almost non-stop. In my area where the dreaded leafspot is a major cause of defoliation, Smoothie–while not immune–handles LS far better than most plants. It is thriving right now as I write this. So it has good hardiness, good health (no BS and leafspot in an acceptable range), and great bloom power. It is also a relatively compact grower. Throw in the bonus of thornlessness and Smoothie is a true winner for Zone 3, at least here in Northern Wisconsin. In the interest of full disclosure, Smoothie was not sent to me for testing–probably because David Z hesitates to put his own roses into the testing program he assists. My guess is that he feels that since he is distributing many of the roses for testing and compiling the results, he may feel that sending out his own introductions is a conflict for him. I purchased Smoothie for myself from a local nursery and I planted it into the test beds for my own evaluation. Petit Pink is also a miniature by David showing great promise after its second year in the ground–so I guess I am strongly encouraging northern growers to give these roses a try.
BTW, on another thread you mentioned that leafspot has become a problem in your area and you mentioned that Never Alone was clean for you. First, I want to warn you that it is rare to see heavy leafspot on a plant in the first year it is grown. In general, it takes several seasons of growth before you will see overwhelming infection. For that reason, it is my opinion that rose testing should be carried out for 3 full years of evaluation. I keep the best performing roses in testing for an additional third year and it is really amazing how the leafspot can hit even the very best roses by that time. So, back to Never Alone. I purchased it just this year for my own use. One is grown in the greenhouse and one is outdoors. The outdoor plant–in its first season–is covered with very disfiguring leafspot and it even has a few BS lesions. For me, to see LS like this in the first season of growing is almost unheard of and it has been the best growing season I’ve had in years with respect to a relatively low to moderate level of LS. It is out there but defoliation has been far less than normal. It has given me a glimpse of how lovely roses can be in the fall where LS is not a major issue. So, I would limit myself at least a bit in the use of Never Alone until you see what next year brings. I really like the appearance of Never Alone but Campfire (same cross) seems to be healthier than NA.
Julie Overom
Great to hear from you here, Julie!
Two or three years ago I made many crosses with Smoothie pollen, but for some reason I don’t have any seedlings. Maybe it needs to be used as a seed parent? Or maybe I need to try again.
My Smoothies, last year, showed quite a bit of some spotting. However, they’re doing pretty well in my display gardens this year.
Thanks for the info on Never Alone. I’m not sure if I got any planted this year.
Hi Joe–great to hear from you, too. I have made only limited use of Smoothie in hybridizing for some reason. I recall trying a few crosses with it the first year I got it and I think I only had (maybe) two hips form. If any seeds germinated, I did not end up keeping anything. I did try using Smoothie in a few crosses this year–but I save it for use mainly with other polyantha roses and R. setigera hybrids–with rather limited luck (not that I have that many polyanthas or R. setigera hybrids to work with). I know I got two or three seeds from a R. setigera x Smoothie cross harvested yesterday. Since Smoothie descends from a R. setigera cross, it is possible that fertility may be limited to female use at this point. I don’t know how many generations it takes for the dioecious characteristic of R. setigera to begin to break down. I do know that some of the seeds are viable and I decided to collect more hips from it yesterday. Maybe David could address the question of Smoothie fertility.
Nearly all my roses were badly affected by leafspot last year. It was a truly terrible year, even in an area that normally has bad LS pressure. That is why this season is such a pleasure. As I said, I certainly do have LS present but defoliation is far less than what I have seen the last two years. Then again, it has been a warm and relatively dry fall.
Julie,
Thank you for your valuable input on Smoothie. My plan was to use it with some of the diploid species and species hybrids that I have. I’m really glad to learn that it is that hardy (Z3b). I just obtained it and will spend the winter planning crosses using it. I’m disappointed to learn that Never Alone proved not to be resistant to LS/BS in your area. I had high hopes that NA would be a good breeding plant. I wish I had access to Campfire to obtain as a breeder. Hopefully it will be come more available soon.
Julie,
I forgot to mention that I have Petit Pink as well and have used it in crosses as the female and have OP hips as well. I had read that PP was hardy to zone 4 and am glad to learn that PP is doing well in your zone 3b. Thank you again for all of the information you provided.