It has developed PM on one stem circumferentially, and on one of two leaves (early stages)…not the best start I’d have to say!..too bad!
The PM continues to spread on this seedling, hitting the tips of the leaves, and the stems that are hidden inside this very branchy bushy seedling (ie. where there is minimal airflow to these internal stems).
Who says humid Sydney doesn’t get PM… LOL
If it wasn’t for the promising total lack of prickles (so far) I would be recommending culling of this seedling, already.
Here the dreaded PM on a leaf this morning…Yes I am currently blessed with a whole lot of spare time (enjoying an early retirement ATM LOL).
Its current stature, note the very bushy architecture, and lots of basal branching:
A close-up of a sepal… the sepals are very leafy indeed:
Its first flower bud as seen this morning…this is pretty much the true color in daylight. There is some green streaking happening I think…wateva…
I removed the flower… wanting to divert energy for it to grow…it is looking like a Christmas tree now with the PM.
On a more serious note, it seems to be a white blend, it did show hints of pink but the flower was not developed enough to be sure…there are other flowers springing up as well now…
Whatever this thing is, there is no way this is F1 Clinophylla x Bracteata.
About two weeks ago, I buried half the plant in the Earth to encourage several of the branchlets to root seperately, to ensure there are multiple plants soon…I have also removed several more flower buds already, but I think I will leave the next lot of flower buds that are already emerging to actually open up and flower.
I also contacted Viru and Girija Viraraghavan privately via email, and sent them a link to this thread, which they read…
They are baffled…they say that this seedling does not resemble any of their own (R.clinophyla x R.bracteata)XOP nor Basye’s Bracteata XOP seedlings in any way…they are most intrigued in the fact that flowering has started this early on, and say that if this seedling proves to be recurrent flowering, then it represents some important breakthrough…
Both Paul B and myself got a few very early flowering seedlings out of Viru’s seeds, Clin x Brac in my case. Again from my F3 and F4 OP seeds.
The outstanding seedling with larger leaves and less numerous pointed leaflets could point to some gigantea like influence.
So in other words, this seedling coud be (Clinophylla x Bracteata)X recurrent rose?!
I have just received three big pictures showing Basye’s Bracteata leaves and flowers, from Viru and Girija…the leaves look nothing like the lanceolate deeply serrated leaves of this seedling, and the flowers are a strong pink color (no surprise!).
??Perhaps this seedling could be (R.clinophylla x R.bracteata)X Basye’s Bracteata…maybe these two plants are near enough to each other for this to have happened via insect pollination…
I’ll ask Viru and Girija about this possibility also, since they have pretty much ruled out that this seedling is an OP out of pure Basye’s Bracteata.
UPDATE…
Viru and Girja absolutely dismiss the idea that natural pollination could have occurred between their (R.clinophylla x R.bracteata) and their Basye Bracteata…the plants are physically nowhere near eachother for this to have occurrred…
They have interestingly suggested I dry the pollen some, then sniff it and check for acetone smell…if positive, this indicates it is clinophylla x bracteata in origin…
I’ll let y’all know the sniffer test result as soon as it is known!
I’ve not smelt clinophylla pollen yet, though Paul B has said on his blog that it too has an acentone smell. I have smelt bracteata pollen and the smell is very much like acetone. Any hint of acetone would indicate descendancy from either these species.
To rule out another variable, at the time I sent the seed out I was not handling any other seed… so what ever its pedigree it is from the batch Viru and Girija sent. I was thinking the long thin leaf looked a little Chinaish, like the 10,000 Camellia’s Red China Rose seedlings I’ve got coming up now, also from Viru.
On the clinophylla x bracteata remontancy issue, bracteata blooms non-stop for me here. I have no idea what the remontancy of clinophylla is like (Robert mentions on HMF that it had a single long flowering phase and Cass mentioned on HMF that it bloomed non-stop for her), but if it’s once flowering it makes sense to me that an OP clinophylla x bracteata seedling would have a good chance of inherting bracteata’s reblooming trait sooner or later.
Clinophylla blossoms smell strongly of acetone.
In California those climates with coastal influence tend to produce a much longer, though in some ways less spectacular, bloom cycle. Even R. banksia repeats along the CA coast.
Those climates don’t experience the enormous once blooming period we experience further inland.
My climate has very little coastal influence.
Pierre, how soon after germination did some of your “early flowering” clinophylla x bracteata start to flower? Did they end up showing a longer repeat flowering compared to their other clinoXbract siblings?
They flower when as small as i.e. HTs seedlings do but this early flowering is a single event that is not repeated as recurrent roses do as later these plants are not different from non early flowering others. Apparently this early flowering is not unlike the earlier (first year) flowering rugosa seedlings and can be considered as accidental rather than a distinctive feature.
So early flowering in this seedling could be from a failure of these species non flowering of young seedlings genetical control. Exposed elsewhere is a theory about recurrence as a failure of once flowering that challenges the “gene(s) for recurrence theory”.
About the surprise seedling: its larger, elongated and less numerous leaflets (some in threes) opposed to numerous clino and brac smaller more numerous leaflets point to gigantea itself as the Viraghavan grow and hybridize the species and many hybrids.
Pierre.
Thank you for your interesting answer and your experience / advice.
I will ask the Viraraghavans about your interesting opinion regarding a possible gigantea contribution here, as soon as I get more information about the scent and relay it all to Girija and Viru.
FYI, Viru is not a “Dr.”.
He has asked this point be corrected.
Having a close-to-photographic memory I also know where I picked up this innocent mistake…it was actually in your article Robert… “Ralph Moore and Sequoia Nursery a History of Innovation with Old Roses” page 55…I read this article late last year, and by the way I really did enjoy it.
Yes George, my mistake and one for which I was corrected. I actually picked up the error via something else I read which goes to show how easily inaccuracies are promulgated.