R.auli thornless question?

[RikuHelin]

Finnish gallica hybrid by Piro Rautio. Pleasant pink double.

Had 3 years and bloomed last year and looked like Finn photos on HMF, but not original vendor’s.

Did crossings last year but didn’t take.

Did not bloom this year. Was protected. Did not pay attention to canes or leaves last year.

Before l wonder whether graft died, and l am seeing a root stock new to me (laxa?), does any European contributors, or others, know whether this rose canes are thornless?

Thornless, except the “odd” prickle on underside of “petiole”, not the individual leaf “petiolule” on the pinnately compound leaves (rose friend declared they were going to send picture of labelled of rose plant parts if l did not increase my technoez).

It put out this year very long canes by my climate standards for tenders - but not a single prickle, thorn or what not on canes, except leaves on them.

[SeasideRooftop]

Hi @RikuHelin ,
I have two overgrown laxa rootstock (corymbifera). They have 5, or often 7 leaflets per leaf. There are no prickles under the spine of the leaves. It is mostly thornless but not really 100% either. See the thorn at the top of the stem in the pic below:

The HMF description of Auli and the pics don’t say much about the foliage but looking at the roses.shoutwiki page they say that Auli should have 3-5 leaflets only.
So perhaps checking the number of leaflets per leaf may provide a clue.

[RikuHelin]

Big thanks, for info on your laxa … u jogged my memory of recent post on your laxa, and like how you logically approached question by offering the alternate approach since growers of auli seem very few - compare to laxa. I will do that.

The memory jog is from ur past post l saw and photo’d a rather large example of “corymbifera” at Kew and its labelled “corymbifera”.

If European vendors favourite it and its similiar, then odds on graft passing on. I’ll keep it as example because l near seen such perfect smooth canes.

This R auli proof of life search made me realize how many hybrids l have that for all intense purposes - except for purist that keep me honest - are thornless near Auli.

Second picture is Auli new canes on right and blanda origins canes on Lillian Gibson left. Auli canes are nearly as high as ten year old Lillian Gibson (canes not always hardy). Betty Bland smooth caned Canadian rose by laxa. Last photo my laxa near Auli.

My laxas are too young to compare with confidence and not designated corymbifera. But looking at one few feet away it does have some thorns on one cane while others none until get to base. My laxa near Auli is last photo.

Spent a bit time on examining all canes of “pinnately compound leaves” on Auli and “all as in 100% of” are “5” leafed.

Makes laxa root stock not likely a contender, and points to possibly graft still alive. My blanda version (Hertonimii … or something like that) from Finland not checked, will get around to it later .

Wish Suomi rose society would put more parental data on HMF roses by their past president if she shared genesis background (passed on).

Maybe rose took a page out of my rambunctious R xanthina close by and took off. That would mean wants to be a climber / rambler, or just tall and arching.

These canes will not be actively protected - too long - too much peat moss required and last year with it, and Pirjo’s Merveille gallica (what a seed parent for me in 2022) proved its hit and miss in my climate. Since very pliable at moment so they will be pegged down to ground end of October to roll the dice.

I plant “close”.

[rugosa]

Auli. Pirjo Rautio, 2004. Rose named after the painter Auli Järvelä. ‘Auli’ grows into a 1.5 m tall, wide bush. The large leaves are thick and sharp-pointed. Abundant flowering begins slightly later than other Gallicas. The buds are dark red. 2-3-5 flowers together. The large flower is 9-10 cm wide, loosely double, with yellow stamens slightly visible. The center is sweet pale pink or aniline, the edges lighter, and it lightens slightly. Strong fragrance of perfume. The calyxes are large and round. The thorns are small and hook-like with bristles. There is a resinous scent at the base of the flower. The sepals are broad and lobed, pointing sideways or downwards. The flower stem is hairy, 3.5-4.5 cm long, resinous. Leaves: 1-2 pairs, serrated, 4.5-7 cm long, 3.2-5.2 cm wide.

http://www.simolanrosario.com/a-uudet-sivut/uudet-gallikat/GALLICA-KUVAT-A-B/auli.html

[RikuHelin]

Hi Hannu

Txs for Finnish rose society data.

An important link for people to save if interested in the Finnish and Nordic roses. Google translator use to work.

I had checked site, and vendor’s when screening Nordic and Scandinavian roses for import candidates.

A couple of question and first one related to canes vs the data.

1.)

Do you know whether Auli canes are thornless?

I can not see any canes in photos.

From site and after calyx note … “The thorns are small and hook-like with bristles.”

None of these on my canes for this years regeneration. However leaves are all five leafed, with two thorns or if preferred terminology, “bristles” on “leaf main rib”

2.)

Are Pirjo’s Auli seed parent and pollen parent information / identities available ?

I took a wild guess she might of used R. blanda “Herttoniemi” with a gallica to get thornless canes.

If l read your past note right, you had mentioned in your work you got it to cross both ways.

One of my Auli blooms from last year.

“Update hour later”

Its alive, it is Auli and its 99% thornless … and my eyesight still good. Maybe Finnish rose society will award Pirjo a gold medal.

How proved ?

Braved going down deep into the crown area where Auli tag and where thornless canes originate to convince myself that least “ l “ know l am not observation mad.

One new thornless cane erupted just below and from existing winter survivor pruned cane stub. Pays to pay attention to how you prune.

Found one normal bristle, or if prefer thorn, at base of the new canes (3).

Canes are “thornlessly” better than some of my thornless roses varieties - at least on my example.

Zipping off a number of cuttings for striking and growing over winter - thornless trait too good to be true to ignore potential use. And five leaved leaflets - not seen that before on my thornless roses - can’t remember Zeffy’s leaf count or what if any of the Gallica hybrids l tested had it (20 years ago).

It actually bloomed this year, one bloom only complete with fresh green hip about 8 inches off ground at crown area. This is where l would expect on a tender Gallica to find a bloom - on any surviving viable short length remains of last year’s canes.

It only blooms once, and on last years cane grow - same with Merveille who had heavy die back in year 2 (sailed through year 1 winter with protection) - and both were protected. Hoping they will show more resilience over time with protection like Empress Josephine has (3 foot canes survive and bloom - lately over 3 winters.

Hip into germination works with fingers crossed it does and an o.p… Hip looks exactly like last years crosses.

This was the start of a good damp foggy day.

Better photo of prickles, hip and blood perils of cross crown examination today.