I purchased this one a few months back in our winter as a budded (?rootstock likely Dr H) bare rooted 2 year plant.
It’s first spring flush turned out a spectacular couple of blooms with great fragrance and HT form as promised. Sadly, since then it has declined into a hugely blackspotted mess with most leaves affected or defoliated, and the flowers have been few and they are declining in quality compared to those few it managed to put out in the spring flush.
I would appreciate any of your collective experiences (both cultural +/- breeding) on this one.
My ma has this growing in her garden. It has a little bit of blackspot and some pm on it all the time. It doesn’t seem to build up into a big strong bush, but only seems to put up a few strong stems. I just adore the fragrance however.
I have a theory about roses if it is named for someone famous with a few exceptions the rose needs to be avoided. If the rose is named after one of the breeders friends or family members you might want to give it a try.
Your theory has been promoted for many years by the likes of Harkness and many other “professional” breeders and writers, Adam. They’ll often choose a rose which may not have made it without the name, and, if named for a politician, probably wouldn’t be that great a loss once the person falls from favor. If you’ve ever seen First Lady Nancy, named when Nancy Reagan was First Lady of California, you’d believe it without question! Take a look at Carruth’s Stinky Babs and Neptune. Neither is perfect everywhere, but Neptune is excellent where Stinky Babs is marginally good, and that’s in the climate they were bred and selected in.
My experiences with this rose, close to Dallas, Texas has been directly opposite of the above findings. Mine is on fortuniana root stock and is very vigrous with blooms on it from Spring to Fall. I plan on using pollen from it this Spring. Black spot is an issue in this area but we rarely seen pm.
PJPII does really well here in San Diego-and the fragrance is remarkable. “Stinky” Babs does well here also, but does sometimes come down with the autumnal strain of BS here. She also passes on her exceptional fragrance quite well. I have an offspring of Babs X Elle, that is quite possibly the most fragrant rose I’ve ever smelled-a large heavy petaled amethyst that takes the heat better than Babs. PJPII really takes the warm dry air well. I love that theory about naming roses!
Stinky" Babs … what is that???
George,
If you had been on the Garden Web rose forums about 6 years ago, you would have known all about Babs, even in Australia. One of the guys just loved Babs and we heard all about it, the singer as well as the rose. It was kind of cute actually, nothing “stalky” but more like hero adoration.
Jim
I remember enjoying her years ago as a singer. As I got around more and encountered people who had actually had run-ins with her, my enjoyment of her as a singer waned, and my distaste for her as an individual increased. I have to deal with only one of her awful name-sake roses as the others have all died…too bad. The remaining one has every ill known to man and only a small portion of them can actually be attributed to the unfortunate siting of the rose. Personally, I feel that rose being named for her is an excellent example of matching an otherwise FEH rose with a name designed to push sales. Had that one been named Neptune, they would have wasted a good commercial name on an otherwise awful plant that can produce pretty flowers. Kim
I am such a sucker for these HT’s and then end up ripping them out when they start to invariably look like crap in my heavily fungus prone location. It happens to me time and again. The nurseries have made a nice little bundle out of suckers like me who are in love with the HT-style flower especially if it carries good fragrance…
George, I have your answer! You must grow them hydroponically in a base of Bayer All in One! Problem solved! Kim
If HTs could be bred to also have great horizontal BS resistance in many regions why, that would be great.
Is that actually possible?
I think it is possible. The problem is not a lot of people have the patience to do all the work. They rather slap on a few chemicals or add a single resistant gene and call it good. It is like having a leaking hose in your engine and just using some duck tape to fix it. When what you need is a whole new hose. I think a lot of the basic work is already done however if you look at some of the Buck and Radler roses.
I don’t have your problem with the form of flowers but I can relate when it comes to fragrance and flower color. So I too am a sucker. Hell I love Angel Face and that is one really bad horrible stick that some people call a rose.
George; Find a HT that does well in Sydney and is very fertile, cross it with these two, Mme Lombard and Marie Van Houtte. You should get that HT look with better BS resistance.
Warren
Tell us more Warren! More detail about your proposed cross - personal experience, named results, anything like that, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
I have 5 nice hips from the Pope this season. And I also have a few seedlings from last year that are surviving. It produces good pollen.
Most roses get blackspot here.
Hi Jeanie,
Thanks for confirmng it is a good pollen parent. Have you tried it as a seed parent, or has anyone else here?
OK… click onto link to see one seedling from JPII seed.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.65042.0
Give it time. Mine did the exact same thing. First year it was gorgeous. Second year I nearly tossed it. This year it did much better again, more vigorous in growth, more blooming and less disease (albeit not a lot less disease). I think this one needs to get well established to perform. And I have noticed that it likes it hot and dry the best so that may be why it’s doing so well for Bill and Jackie. It has a tendency to ball and get brown mushy edges when it’s really damp here. But Holy Cow can it smell Heavenly (puns indtended)!
Adam, I can so relate! I have a double whammy for Angel Face, disease magnet that she is. She can be absolutely gorgeous, smell divine and she’s one of the last ones I have left from Mom’s roses. So her she’ll stay. But I look at it this way, she’s my one stick wonder canary in the mine.