In table 2 from David’s article on black spot, Lena had the second smallest lesions right behind The Fairy for all three races studied. Earlier in this thread David mentioned that La Marne is the seed parent of Lena. I have Le Marne but have never gotten any seedlings from it, so I don’t know how Kathy Zuzek managed to do it. I’m not sure if Lena is thornless but I know Le Marne is. The thought is to cross my hardy, thornless (Marie Pavie x R.blanda) with disease resistant and repeat blooming Lena with the aim to get hardy, disease resistant, repeat blooming and thornless offspring from this cross.
Marie Pavie x R.blanda with Lena would be a great cross. She’d accept the pollen for sure. I have to check, I think she has less thorns than Sven.
Both Ole and Sven are just as good. I just checked I made a mistake I now only have Ole. I’d love Sven and Lena back, Lena could make a much better hardier version of ‘Ballerina’ if not already is. It’s such a shame they’re being pulled! They’re some of the hardiest bloomiest roses I’ve seen for their type.
It would be great if the Lena does accept MP x Rb pollen because few plants have accepted it. I’ve tried it on (9) different plants and it only took one one, it’s half sibling.
HMF has Hortico listed as selling Lena but I checked their website and it’s not listed. I just hope it’s available at the local nurseries.
If it really does go off the market, Max, I’ll try to root you one. I’m not great at rooting cuttings, but it should be fairly easy. I don’t want to do it until I know for sure they’re not available commercially, and I think Baileys is still selling them this year.
Just for fun, here are a couple pics of OP Ole, Lena, and Sven from mixed seed.
Those seedlings look really good Joe, better than mine. It looks like they’re going to be prolific bloomers because there are quite a few flower buds already. Surprisingly polyantha seedlings don’t always bloom in their first season. It’s good to know that these seeds germinate readily. What temperature did you stratify them at? Polyanthas usually germinate best at 50 degrees.
Thanks, Paul. The germination rate may not have been that high, because I started with a full flat of seeds. If I remember correctly, I collected hips indiscriminately and some may not have been mature.
I gave them a couple of weeks at room temperature last fall and had a few seeds germinate then, of which I have one seedling remaining. Then I put them into cold stratification with all the rest, at about 34 degrees, until sometime I think in March, when several had started to pop up in storage. Then I brought them in to I think about 70 degrees, because I didn’t really have a 50 degree spot. Just these few germinated, and I don’t remember how many of those germinated after I brought it in. I don’t know how many seeds there were in the flat, but it could have been 400 or more. Now I think there are under 30 seedlings. I would have kept the flat, but now I can’t find it and I think it might have got tossed out in the shuffle around here.
I’m a little daunted by trying to use a polyantha type as a female. The blossoms pop open so fast and are so tiny. But it seems like it would be fun to try. Like I said, I really like the shrubbiness and glossy foliage of Max’s Enjouee.
The Ole, Lena, and Sven’s (3 of each) that I planted in our gardens last spring all came through the winter with plenty of live wood at the base.
If one can use either a rugosa or a synstylae type as a seed parent, go for it. They germinate so much more easily than most. It is worth the extra work to do the crosses due to this.
I agree using the poly as the female is a little daunting. Another member said that because the reproductive parts are so small on the polys they are harder to work with than minis. They also tend to be very selective on what pollen they accept. The only reason I want to try Lena as the seed parent is because my (Marie Pavie x R.blanda) isn’t very fertile and I don’t think I can use it as the seed parent so I have to use it as the pollen parent. Its pollen has only taken on one plant and I’m hoping it might take on Lena also if it’s fertile. I’m planning to try it on Smoothie as well because I had a fair number of OP seedlings from it last year. Otherwise I’ve pretty much given up on using the poly’s as the seed parent and will only use them as the pollen parent. Last year I used a Candy Oh, Le Marne and Marie Pavie pollen mix on a (Showy Pavement x R.blanda) and had a good number of seeds.
Granted 30 seedlings out of 400 seeds isn’t that great for a germination rate, but it’s not that unusual to have less 10% germination rate for a batch of seeds. You may get a higher germination rate if you could find a place to keep the seeds at 50 degrees during cold storage. I don’t know if this is lucky or not but I have back room in the basement that will get down to near 50 degrees in the winter if I keep the door closed so that is where I keep my Poly and Hybrid Musk seeds during cold storage.
Take a look at Doc. I pull pollen from that microbe (as well as Tom Thumb and a few other microscopic types) when flowers are available. I can’t imagine attempting it as a seed parent. Come to think of it, I’ve never found a hip on it.
Baby Faurax (the real version that Verizon killed) set hips so easily, but Lullaby is nearly sterile (mechanical failure on both genders). Carefree Marvel, Oso Easy Peachy Cream, and other wichurana types often set hips and germinate very easily. Then there are poly-types like Summer Wind (Buck) that are intermediate between poly and floribunda, but this one germinates like most close Pernetiana descendants – not so much. Bukavu, which is pretty much a 6" tall poly, and its clan, germinate easily, too.
It is worth the effort for most poly types, imo, because the seeds are often numerous and easy. I’ve sown something like 100 Touch of Class, Whisper, etc. seeds once, and … nothing. Polys are easy, lol.
As long as you don’t value your vision or have an electron microscope! LOL! One I would love seeing more done with is Wild Dancer. The photos on HMF do NOT do it justice ( not even mine!). Here and along the coast, it is bullet proof and always in flower. That’s what attracted me to it in the first place. There can be a touch of chlorosis in my alkalinity, until it’s corrected, but that doesn’t slow the plant down at all. It’s extremely fertile and rudely healthy here.
Though I maintain Baby Faurax because I like it and it’s a 17 year old standard I budded on a Cardinal Hume whip, I prefer using Lauren because it doesn’t mildew like BF does, is more vigorous and doesn’t seem to have any issues with chlorosis like BF does here. I guess, if I were having to use the older classifications, BF would be a poly while Lauren would more closely resemble the Lambertiana type, though, unlike them, Lauren is in flower year round in this climate. I was told last week it never spots in both Puget Sound and Dallas, and Chill Out! Roses in Anchorage finds it hardy enough for them to carry. Neat!
The two polys that set OP hips like crazy are Heinrich Karsch and Lauren (both will be used a lot this year). They are super hardy here and bulletproof too.
Anda grows very well here too, but I have not seen an OP hip on it and I have yet to get anything to stick on it (I’m going try some diploids on it this year as a last ditch effort). I never get any pollen from it - unless it is invisible to the naked eye.
I have seen a few OP hips on Tom Thumb and Cineraire, but the critters got to them before I did so I don’t know what could have been inside them (I’ll be trying a few types of pollen on them too). They would both be fun to work with just for the challenge of using such small varieties.
I agree that Wild Dancer needs to be used a bit more. I have never had the opportunity to grow it but I have two Wild Dancer seedlings from some OP hips Kim sent me I think about 4 years ago. I had 4 but two were extremely stunted with the oddest growth. One never flowered and the other had the ugliest 3 petaled flowers in the dirtiest pink you can think of - not worth keeping the three years that I did. The two I kept are really neat. One is almost thornless with rose pink ruffled semi-double blooms less than an inch in diameter. The other is a single pink with a light scent close to vanilla and huge sprays of blooms. One of them has burgundy to cherry-red stems (I think it is the single one). The single set OP hips last year. Both have what I am l consider the plant structure I want in a rose bush - rounded and well branched. Good disease resistance. They are both grown in pots so i don’t know hoe they would take an Iowa winter.
Thanks, “I” am honestly impressed by Lauren, even if I do say so myself. What’s not to like? But, I’ll start another thread so I don’t hijack this one.
A tray of OP Ole and Lena. Very good germination, I planted these three weeks ago. Had some white fuzz on top in patches today so I spritzed it with 3% hydrogen peroxide. I took the humidity dome off and am hoping they will do okay at 55 degrees and 35 rh. The Lena’s have germinated at about 85% success and there are many, many more Oles so I will reserve judgement on that.
Prior to germination, they were stratified in the hips in Ziplocs in the fridge for about 2 months. I read here that around 50 degrees is good for polyantha germination so I took them out and sowed them. These were collected at the Lyndale Park Rose Garden that has a couple hundred varieties of rose, so I’m hoping for some cool results.
About 54 ole and Lena seedlings potted up. Another 40 or so in the tray. I am not seeing as much vigor now so likely a lot of those won’t be potted up.
These are looking like some might need a weak feed with mega crop soon.
I need to come up with some way to evaluate the root system because there were some interesting variations while I was potting up. Some had one long taproot and others were very branched but shorter.
One could make note of the root system on individual tags; coming up with a shorthand description of a plants roots though. lol
Maybe from 1-taproot type to 5-densely fibrous?
I did notice this very thing myself at the end of summer, when I broke up the seedling bed and potted up The Keepers. One of my OP ‘Mutabilis’ had a VERY strong taproot.
yes, that’s a good idea. a deep taproot might mean the beginnings of a more vigorous system. i’ll do that as i pot them up from now on and see if that transfers to any that make it into the garden bed.
What I’ve long noticed is, the more vigorous the entire root system, the better the seedling. I’ve raised many with long tap roots and few side/feeder roots and they have universally been week and diseased. Those with massive root systems are the more vigorous, healthy and productive plants.
I agree, initial root growth orientation is probably overrated. A strong, vigorous root system is often accompanied by a rapid strengthening of the main stem, so that the entire seedling becomes sturdy relatively quickly when there is good root vigor and a solid root-shoot interface (I’m almost tempted to call it “core strength.”) Seedlings that are still relatively weak and flimsy at five to seven true leaves (the usual first bloom stage for everblooming seedlings) under good growing conditions tend to stay weak and flimsy.
On the original subject, ever since I learned about this series, as a (mostly) Minnesotan kid who grew up with “uff da” jokes, I’ve always wondered why Lars didn’t get a rose! Sven has performed pretty admirably here in Maryland despite less than stellar growing conditions (purchased because it was reputed to have the best fragrance of the series). It doesn’t form many OP hips and hasn’t been a very cooperative seed parent so far, though.
