Had this idea of using NW high altitude Chinese species roses in a breeding programme , crossed with moderns. Within the next 2 wks I will picking the hips of a (Sympathie X Rosa Forrestiana), I dont know what I will get as there are no offspring of(Rosa Forrestia X Moderns) to compare with.
This winter I am going to get in Rosa Sweginzowii and Rosa Willmottiae. These two plus Rosa Foresttiana are found at altitudes of around 3,000m ( over 9000 ft), I think by using these, will give some fungal protection and in some degree cold tolerance due to their native habitat.
Out of the three I have listed, only Rosa Willmottiae has been used in breeding, but with species only. This should be an interesting venture over the next few years.
I like the idea of John Nieuwesteeg’s hybrid of R.foliolosa X R.willmottiae (see link).
I would love to get R.foliolosa the species, it is here but so far all attempts at getting some have failed me!
George I could probably send you seed in the fall of R. foliolosa in the fall if you would like.
Oh really?!! Is it thornless?..what are its flowers like??..what is its habit like???
George it is thornless. As far as the habit is concerned I am not certain as it is a young plant. But my guess is that it is never going to make really thick canes and it will be a bushy upright arching shrub when full grown. I made crosses with it last year and it set seeds well.
The seeds so far seem to be coming up depending on the cross some crosses like R.foliolosa x Purple Pavement are coming up like weeds while other crosses like R.foliolosa x R. foetida biocolor are barely coming up and when they do they are showing difficulty growing. This last cross is probably due to ploidy issues which is the only teraploid pollen I tried. But other diploid pollen parents do not seem to be working out either. Other diploid and the 1 of the 2 triploid cross I did are coming up better. For example multiflora crosses are barely coming up, but I do have a few and maybe more will come up but I think the whole family R. multiflora is in may be a little hard to get decent seedlings from. At least that is what the evidence is suggesting at this point.
By the way the seeds are coming up either really well or barely depending on the cross I think that it is self incompatable, so any seed I send you will most likely be a cross with something else. I say it is self incompatable because while doing these crosses it was almost impossible to get to the flowers before they shed pollen. I was going to weed out seedlings based on leaf morphology or other things. Establishing the norm first and then selecting for the abnormal but now I do not think I have to. Because I would expect most of the seed to act the same way if their was a large group of selfs.
The flowers are single pink with a slightly darker shading towards the outer edges. The pistals are flush against the petals barely sticking out. The hips are small globes which keep their sepals to maturity. Hip color is scarlet. The foliage is weird for a rose. It is elongated. I thinking if I remeber right 7 or 9 leaflets. The foliage is olive to light green. The canes have a slight reddish color to them. The lower portion of the canes bark changes to a greyish bark color. But very thornless at least so far. It may put on some thorns with age but I can not see much from it even then. The foliage in fall picks up a purplish red tint. Seeds from it are small whitish and are much the same shape and size as many rugosas or woodsii. A good percentage over 50% were floaters and by the germination rates of some of the crosses I would say floaters do sprout with this species.
So if it makes it through the winter, which from all I have heard it should be very hardy. I will certainly send you some seeds. But like I stated up above most likely they will be only half because I think my specimen is self incompatible or at least mostly by the evidence I have at hand.
One more thing all the seedlings that have developed any size are beginning to show thorns, which was expected. So the thornless trait in this species is recessive.
Totally fascinating Adam, thank you!!!
…I think by using these, will give some fungal protection<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
That is interesting Warren, which fungi in particular are you hoping to protect from?
as someone mentioned recently: Is there any rose you did not breed with?"
You know, I also like to breed with ‘Sympathie’. I’m on tenterhooks of the result you will get.Good luck with your crosses &…
Have a good time with harvesting your hips!
With all the wet weather we had and high humidity (which is unusual) I have seen a lot of roses even D Austins as bare sticks from BS infections, Rosa Forrestiana was clean as a whistle. My aim is to create hybrids from these high altitude Chinese species X Moderns and cross them back over Tea X Moderns.
Bemo who said , is there not a rose I have’nt used lol. Although I might use some unusual combinations, I spend hrs a day for a period of 9 mths working out combinations, my thought process is very analytical with the information which I collect.
I have seen your Sympathie crosses Bemo, great stuff. This rose Sympathie would have to be the best bridging rose that I have used for while, Species roses and OGR every thing sticks on it. The most important thing though, is all offspring using Sympathie are very very healthy, you saw the pic of the seedlings from last year on the other site?
Sympathie is absolutely one of my top 5 favorite climbers ever. If I had the room, I would grow it again in a heartbeat. Its definitely a full-sized, classic climber though, much like New Dawn.
Michael, what might be your remaining four top climbers?
Orange Velvet, but one cannot live where mildew is common.
High Hopes, but one cannot live where mildew is common, LOL…
and… hmmm… Salita.
I’m partial to Moon within Tidal Waves, likely out of bias, but its a true pillar and not a climber. However, so is Orange Velvet. They freestand with zero support.
So I’d have to nix OV and MwTW for Shadow Dancer since its a true climber.
Interesting roses…I thought you may have included Westerland and maybe Fourth Of July, but not so!
FoJ is awful for areas which blackspot easily. Anything that close to Roller Coaster is. Westerland is okay, but I like the color of Autumn Sunset better. Theyre otherwise identical.
FOJ is great for nurseries though because it blooms easily and is simple to train.
Michael you can not forget Altissimo, when growing well its a stunner
I pulled out FOJ a few days back. Mine made very few flowers, had loads of BS…not for me!
The blooms of both are pretty, and thats about as far as it goes for me.
“The most important thing though, is all offspring using Sympathie are very very healthy, you saw the pic of the seedlings from last year on the other site?”
of course, great roses! my favorite is ‘sympathie’ x ‘Alba maxima’
Beside the healthyness my expectation with the lady was also to get winter hardy kids due to the ‘kordesii’ impact. Unfortunately this is not given in any case, one of the best (‘Honky Tonk Woman’) is frozen away the last strong winter
Anyhow…will continue to breed with this rose.
I bet this was a colour you would 'nt expect from Sympathie, it took me by supprise.