I am looking for these cold-hardy varieties. Any help would be appreciated.
Aurora
Beauty of Leafland
Hazeldean
Prairie Peace
Yellow Altai
J5
Are there any other cold hardy varieties I should look for?
Thanks for your time
Mike
Mike, tell me where you live and perhaps I can help you. If you live in the U.S., it’s a hassle to ship plants across the border from Canada where I live. I have to obtain a phystosanitary certificate, the plants have to be inspected, and then there’s the shipping costs and extra length of time for the shipment to reach you. Having said that, I like to get certain Canadian developed rose cultivars established in the U.S. that are not there. Hopefully, they will eventually get planted in public rose gardens. Maybe I should make this a stipulation before I send them.
It might be a good idea if you outline your breeding goals, so that your list of roses can be refined. Either by being subtracted, replaced or added to. I can tell you right now that Rosa acicularis ‘Kinistino’ is better quality than ‘Aurora’ and is more available to me. In fact, ‘Aurora’ is on my wish list to get it added to the Canadian heritage rose cultivar collection at the Devonian Botanic Garden located near Edmonton, Alberta.
Paul,
Unfortunately I do live in the U.S. I live in zone 5/6 Akron Ohio. I have a lot of different goals as far as breeding goes. My main one is to develop small, thornless, cluster-flowering shrubs that are cold-hardy and disease-resistant. Kind of like the original polyanthas. I was thinking that maybe these cold-hardy varieties would help reinforce that trait. Besides that, I think they are wonderful plants in their own right. I am going to start out crossing thornless Wichuarana with thornless Multiflora and then fix the thornless trait by either selfing the best seedlings or crossing two of the best. I would like to then cross that with Basye’s Legacy. That would add Rugosa, Carolina, and Musk to the mix. I would like to incorporate the spinossissimas in there at this point also. That is where I might have to sacrifice thornlessness for more cold-hardiness. I don’t know whether it will work or not by I am going to give it a try. Once I get that far I will try to add the Cina influence
Have you considered ‘Gina’s Rose’? sequoianursery.biz
It is a ‘Basye’s Legacy’ offspring. I don’t have it or know about its fertility.
How about ‘Basye’s Blueberry’? I love it and it is very cane hardy in zone 4 where I’m at. It is thornless as well and repeat blooms.
I don’t know how much reinforcing of thornlessness you need to do. It is a recessive trait within the R. multiflora and R. wichurana selections and hybrids (thornless stems, prickles under rachis of leaf). Those that are thornless are homozygous recessive. There may be a more complicated model for thornlessness among some other backgrounds.
Good luck.
David
Some microminis are thornless. Maybe you could do something like:
Cinderella/Any other diploid micromini x Geschwind’s Orden
Or something like…
Gina’s Rose x Rush/Ballerina/Bukavu/Any other modern multiflora
or something like…
Len’s hybrid x Sweet Chariot
Rugosa hybrid x Sweet Chariot
And so on…
Mike,
I like your idea of developing “small, thornless, cluster flowering shrubs that are cold hardy and disease resistant.” Because of the dramatic increase of hard landscaping of homes in the last few years, small roses are the roses of the future. I also like the fact you want to combine Rosa wichurana and Rosa multiflora, because theoretically the former will provide disease resistance and the latter floriferousness (yes, I’m aware Ramblers developed by combining these two species can be prone to mildew). However, once you add Spinosissimas I can almost guarantee you will negate the thornless characteristic and at the same time will be adding the tallness one.
I think it took three generations, for example, for Morden to “hammer down” ‘Hazeldean’ (a Spinosissima) before they could develop a relatively short, yellow cultivar (‘Morden Sunrise’). It grows to a maximum of .75 metres in a Zone 3 climate. But one reason it doesn’t grow any taller in a cold climate, is that the shrub usually winter kills severely. Which isn’t a problem, since it is root hardy and grows vigorously the following spring, flowering well on new wood.
If you are not aware, besides ‘Hazeldean’, the J5 selection is also in the pedigree of ‘Morden Sunrise’.
I’ve thought about this a lot, and I don’t know if it is possible to develop small, very cold hardy, cluster flowering shrubs. I think for this type of rose to grow in cold climates (Zone 3), the plant has to be treated as an Annual. There is one possible strategy. ‘Marie Bugnet’, a Rugosa, reputedly has Polyantha in the parentage via ‘F.J. Grootendorst’. And it is a fact the late Robert Erskine of Rocky Mountain House, Alberta developed a very short cultivar from ‘Marie Bugnet’. I think its maximum height was 30 cm. So some experimentation should be done with ‘Marie Bugnet’ to see if more dwarf progeny can be produced from it. ‘Marie Bugnet’ is only fertile as a staminate parent.
As an option to plants, you (or anyone else) can obtain pollen from me of the cultivars you listed.
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Aurora is available at www.roguevalleyroses.com. I’m looking for Hazeldean also and Prairie Fire and Prairie Joy. I just ordered Morden Fireglow and Morden Sunrise for winter hardy color.
I wonder how hardy White Drift is? That seems like a quicker end to the Wich x Multi idea. I cant test for hardiness tho =/
For a number of years I have tried to germinate open pollinated seeds of Prairie Fire. Nothing to show for it.
I now have a hip from Carefree Sunshine using Prairie Fire pollen.
I have not yet cleaned my 2006 hips so I cannot say anything about the condition and number of seeds in the hip.
Hello,
Ashdown Roses has Beauty of Leafland. They do not carry it very often because its fairly hard to propagate.
I do have both J5 and Beauty of Leafland but they are both fairly small and still in pots. Both were very stressed during my move from Nebraska to Idaho and grew verry little. Will be put in ground in April. This will by my first year hybridizing with them.
They do seem to sucker fairly well so I may have something I can dig up this fall or next spring.
Some other hardy roses that I have and really like are Applejack and Hawkeye Bell. HB might be hard to work with but can set hips. I wonder if roses like Golden Unicorn or Winter Sunset would be worth considering. Both are small in size. They are not super hardy and will die back to the snow line in colder winters. Will make it through most zone 4 winters without protection (will die back to the ground or snow line in Minnesota.) Fantastic little roses with above average disease resistance.
Prairie Fire isn’t all that hardy in zone four from what I could tell - the one in my garden consistently died to the ground and only barely managed to bloom with its garish hot pink flowers. I do remember one growing in a display garden at the U of MN that seemed to have one or two larger canes, but it wasn’t overly full either. The only remarkable thing about it is its resistance to blackspot, which is equal to or possibly even superior to Knockout and in extremely trying conditions for a rose. I don’t remember how the better-treated U of MN one fared for disease.
Where ever did you J5 from, Steve? That and Prairie Peace are the two I’d be most interested in locating sources for. I wouldn’t pass up a Hazeldean if I found one either. Morden Sunrise is a step in the wrong direction for me; I’d rather go back to the parent material. Compact growth isn’t particularly among my goals.
Thanks for all the input. I think I’ll cross Prairie Fire off my list (a very very long list). Prairie Peace and Prairie Sunrise are on the list too.
Anyone have any experience with Brownell’s sub-zero roses? They’re widely available and with his being a New England hybridizer (Rhode Island) I find them very appealing.
I have Prairie Joy and several of its open pollinated seedlings. I do not see anything special in the seedlings. I probably should try some crosses with the seedlings. I am sure that I tried some crosses with the mother, but have nothing to show for it.
Right now the mother’s status is: if I need space, it will be removed.
Mike,
I
Regarding Morden Fireglow and Mordern Sunrise, in my climate Morden Fireglow’s blooms ball very severely, otherwise I would still have the bush. It was a clean compact hardy shrub. I used Morden Sunrise this past year as a seed parent and it accepted pollen from everything that I tried. The germination has not been too poor either. My MS bush is farily upright, grows to about 4 ft tall, blooms all summer long, had some black spot fairly late in the season (which I attributed more to the bush going into dormancy than serious susceptibility issues), and is very winter hardy. BUT if you hate thorns this is not the bush for you.
Lori, I posted an inquiry about the Brownell roses a few weeks ago on Rosarian’s Corner. From the great feed back on RC, I decided to pass on the sub-zero roses. Two reasons, the first being that it is apparently quite hard to find virus free versions of these roses. Secondly, they still need winter protection in zone 4/5, so they are not all that hardy.
About Brownell sub-zero roses. That’s pretty accurate, they freeze down about 5 below. Of course duration of cold matters too. I used #84 a lot many years ago to cross onto Carefree Beauty and produced a totally disease resistant plant that has never frozen back for me even when we had winters well below zero. That’s the one I call Arctic Sunrise. It is a fair seed parent but hasn’t provided any remarkable offspring. Past 8 yrs of course we’ve only seen below zero two nights. #84 was almost totally resistant to blackspot. It didn’t really like the heat all that much here and was not good on its own roots. Finally expired in a very dry shady place 2 yr ago after ~30 yr.
I saw a very fine specimen of #84 on a visit to RI a couple decades ago. It obviously did well there.
Queen o the Lakes is a superior red, completely disease free here and good on its own roots. Hardier than #84.
Rhode Island Red is like a brilliant Radiance but a bit gangly in shape. Hardy and disease free.
Senior Prom is the most outrageous pink, not hardy below zero. Not totally disease free.
Henry Field is a sister of Q o Lakes but doesn’t bloom as well for me. Maybe location is bad.
Orange Ruffels was excellent but I lost it after 15 yrs or so. Not superhardy.
Helen Hayes I have always grown as a pot plant since it got freeze damage some years ago. Great color, not so disease resistant. Charlotte Brownell, V for Victory faded from the scene. Just got Dr Brownell last spring for $3 at Home Depot. Had to rescue it as cutting on its own roots in fall as the waxed stems had sunburned. It had a very fine flower, attractive foliage much like Dr. Huey.
My impression is that as the Brownells got more sales they got more into the mainline HT business and their hardiness and disease resistance went down the tubes.
I wish I had #84 to use with Carefee Sunshine. #84 produces mostly exogenous seeds and poor germination. Pollen works fine as a source of bleachable yellow, disease resistance and hardiness up to a certain level.
To add another comment on Lori’s request about Brownell Roses. Out of about 18 Brownells that I had in the last 10 years only three remain. Most did not survive my NH Z5 winters. The three remaining Brownells are White Cap, Country Doctor, and Golden Artic, which I think Larry refers to as #84. The disease resistance of these three are above average. (White Cap is the most disease resistant). All will die to the ground with no snowcover when the temp goes to the minus teens. The only one I’ve used for hybridizing is Golden Artic, and it has given me a couple of nice looking roses. My “Aunt Honey x Golden Artic” is a white blush, very double with good disease resistance and has survived a few winters.
The following are the Brownells that died after several winters.
Also disease resistance was no better than average on most.
Artic Flame
Break O’Day
Charlotte Brownell
Curly Pink
Dr Brownell
Helen Hayes
Lily Pons
Maria Stearns
Margaret Chase Smith
Orange Ruffles
Queen of the Lakes
Senior Prom
V for Victory
Paul Olsen: I appreciate the offer of the pollen and I do believe I will take you up on the offer. I would be interested at some time in helping you get those Canadian varieties into the states. I think it is a very worthy idea.
I was also reading an old post from a couple of years ago about Morden Sunrise and there was also a J6 mentioned. What is that bush like? I like the idea of Marie Bugnet and I may try Morden Sunrise also.
Paul Guerts: I am going to use Rum 10 for Multiflora. I am going to use a thornless wich. developed by Basye. Those R Blanda clones sound really nice. I hadn’t thought of that species but it sounds like a promising idea.
Jadae: I think I will look into White Drift as a possibility. I really like some of the Lens hybrids. I like Rush and Bukavu. I also like Plaisanterie.
David: I have Basye’s Blueberry already and I am getting Gina’s Rose this year along with Carlin’s Rhythm by Kim Rupert. That is Lilac Charm X Basye’s Legacy.
So all in all I have a lot of other options and it will be fun trying to get to my goal.
Thank you for all of your input.
Mike
I was sent cuttings of J5. I was lucky enough to have 1 plant take out of 10. I am not very good at propagation from cuttings. The one that took was from new growth at the end of a branch.
I will ask the person who sent them to me if its ok for me to pass his name on other people.