My experience with JoycieKordesii was the same as Julie’s–washed out color and poor blackspot resistance. Don is on to something–more than likely you could come up with something better yourself!
Betsy van der Hoek (zone 7b)
I agree Betsy. Thanks for your input. Too bad it was a mess.
Watch using Sheri Anne due to black spot. None are perfect, but Sheri Anne unfortunately has the disease issues associated with Floradora and Little Darling. If you have 1-72-1, I’d explore that one first. 1-72-1 can mildew, but it produced healthier offspring with deeper yellows than Rise’n Shine and none have had the black spot or rust issues I’ve encountered from Joycie or Sheri Anne. If you don’t mind triploids, Golden Horizon is producing some interesting things. I accidentally left mine behind in the move, but Burling shows she has it so that one is a needed order.
Kim,
I don’t see any US source for 1-72-1. Do you have that one? Also, how is disease resistance for Golden Horizon? Fertile triploid?
I’m going back to using Lemon Splash! this season. I had some good results using it season before last. Lost it over winter and have it on order for spring. Thank you.
Sorry Rob, I’d used 1-72-1 for all I wanted to use it for, so I gave it away in this last move. I passed it around to any and everyone I could find who wanted it. I think that plant is now in Goleta, about forty-five minutes south of here. Jeff Stover may have it as I sent him a bunch of things year before last after he moved to Nevada and he lists it on his HMF garden listing. Golden Horizon didn’t experience any disease issues in Encino, which means little for New Jersey (or elsewhere). Yes, fertile triploid, like Golden Angel, Torch of Liberty, Lynnie, apparently L56-1 and likely quite a few others. You will likely get a pretty wide range of results due to the inequal combinations of the two sets of genes. But, is that such a bad thing when it comes to difficult combinations? Nothing crossed successfully with Minutifolia or even 86-3 for me until triploid minis. Cal Poly resulted in a vigorous climber with 86-3, and it hasn’t flowered yet. Golden Horizon has produced one, too, with even better foliage and the blamed thing is flowering now, in its second year. 'GHX86-3' Rose I obtained the best results using Hugonis with 1-72-1, producing 1-72-1Hugonis, which has then led to some pretty neat results as that seedling appears much more compatible with more roses than the species was. There is only one other result from going back to Hugonis, is with Sheri Anne, and it has not flowered in easily five years since germination. Suntan Beauty was healthy for me here and crossed fairly easily with Fedtschenkoana, but no flowers yet after quite a few years. My “go to” minis now are L56-1, Golden Horizon, Pink Petticoat and Golden Horizon, with Tom Thumb starting to play a greater role in some of the crosses. I’m always on the hunt for fertile, healthy yellow minis which don’t have The Fairy or any of its relatives behind them. I didn’t like the architecture of any of Yellow Jewel’s descendents. They were too angular and sprawling, two traits you’re going to get from any climbing or species use.
Kim,
Thank you for all of that information. I’m putting in an email to Burling to see if she has Golden Horizon, Cal Poly and Suntan Beauty available for spring delivery. I’ll put a global request here for 1-72-1 for cuttings this spring.
I think I have one of your L56-1 crossed with a hugonis derivative that may have survived the winter. The tag mentioned red canes I believe. Will look at that one again.
Watch using Sheri Anne due to black spot. None are perfect, but Sheri Anne unfortunately has the disease issues associated with Floradora and Little Darling.
And yet Sheri Anne × Out of Yesteryear gave Paul his Castle Bravo (174-02-17) which is one of his Atomic series anti-black spot breeders, and hardy here in zone 5b/6a to boot.
I’d bet Sheri Anne had less to do with the BS resistance than Lemon D (Little Darling X Lemon Delight) and Bracteata did. Lemon D gave Ralph many quite healthy offspring. Not necessarily pretty or commercial, but healthy. You’re welcome, Rob. Of the things I sent you, this one was labeled “#4”, but has been the first to flower. I don’t think it’s the dark caned one.
I’ll check the tag. I picked up Lemon D last season and if it made it through winter I have high hopes for it. It struggled as a very small rooted plant last season but so far I see green wood.
If it is Lemon D, it may do some interesting things for you. BTW, I emailed Jeff as it’s been a while since we’ve been in contact, and asked about 1-72-1.
Thank you for checking Kim.
You’re welcome, Rob. One of many benefits to spreading things around and listing them in garden listings on HMF!
Rob, where did you find Lemon D?
Kim, I have no doubt that the disease resistance didn’t originate with Sheri Anne but that’s exactly my point. The Moore mini’s can be used as a source of refinement in rustic species crosses with an expectation that some progeny will be disease resistant if the rustic partner carries disease resistance. This is analogous to the original stud china’s being used by Guillot and Descemet and the other breeders and to Pernet-Ducher using Antoine Ducher later on.
The trick is how to keep ahead of the microbes.
That’s what Ralph preached for decades, Don. His minis brought several species into modern roses. They brought stripes, blotches, mossing and crested sepals into modern, repeat flowering floribundas, HTs, climbers and shrubs. There is no other documented source of stripes than his minis. I would expect the European stripes so prevalent now, have all originated from McGredy’s stripes, which all came directly from Stars’n’Stripes. They certainly grow as if they did. I have noticed that it sometimes takes many generations to negate original disease issues engineered in from the beginning. For instance, I would never cross Cal Poly with an Arkansana. Both are much to easily forced to rust by being kept too dry. I would never use Loving Touch with a Banksiae due to both of their addiction to mildew, particulary as young plants.