Three interesting photos of their “Babylon” series of roses.
Link: forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg0508255421311.html?3
Interesting Ann. Thanks for sharing this.
I think I will back off of experimentation with Hulthemia hybrids for now. It seems there are those far ahead of the game.
One could save a lot of time and effort by starting with any one of these if they wanted to explore things further.
Wow! They look very exciting. There is one with what even seems like nice glossy leaves! I look forward to growing some of these and hopefully someday some of Jim Sproul’s hybrids as well. I hope some of yours Jim come to the market in the near future too.
Sincerely,
David
Obvious Rosa wichurana hybrids, lol.
J/P is Keisei and Interplants main Us distributor (French Perfume, Spring Fever, Happy Chappy, Lady of the Dawn,Lavender Dream are example of their J/P intros). So, we’ll see if they ever hit the US. My 2nd guess would be Heirloom.
Hi you!
Great news, - I think, Jim is right in saying (in the Hulthemia hybrids thread) that soon Hulthemias could form a new trend-setting.
My only problem with those hybrids could be the healthieness.
This should immediately be the first aim in breeding in my view. (And its my hobby, I don’t aim to do it like Austin, who pushes out rose after rose, but the most of them ill after weeks.)
So I will nevertheless pollinate my motherplants of persica with healthy species to get resistant once blooming F1 roses, that might be fertile.
And remember: every of those hybrid hulthemia roses so far is done by the narrow window of the F1 plant of “Tigris” from Jack Harkness.
For me thats at least a hint to go other ways.
Of course I will also try crossings with those hybrids, but its still a special challenge, to go for the second alive fertile F1 after Tigris - with perhaps even more healthieness.
Greetings!
Arno
its still a special challenge, to go for the second alive fertile F1 after Tigris
What are your planned crosses to accomplish this?
Hi Don!
I will for sure post the crosses and the backgrounds, if it looks sufficient & successful (= gerinating and growing).
At the moment I will first DO as much of the things as possible instead of talking about them, because there are enough people with better financial background than me, being able to top my thoughts if they got enough infos.
At the moment I have got two buds of persica that will flower within the next days, and that represent two different types that come from sources that are a few 1000 km apart from each other. …
I will pollinate them with some related types of roses and treat them with a special temperature program to support the seed setting of the hybrid seed hips.
Greetings,
Arno
I mailed Interplant yesterday, hope to receive any answer on my questions. Really curious if these pieces are also here in Holland.
Arno
You certainly thought about crossing persica with a diploid strong smaller flowered climbing or large growing species or close to species able of producing ample pollen for further crosses.
This would be my strategy if I had plants of persica as getting to the next step is the most crucial point.
I’ve thought about persica roses with glossy foilage. Two days ago, I made a cross of R. kordesii X Persian Sunset (which had been saved about three weeks ago.)
I also see a flower opening on my R. kordesii X Basye’s Amphidploid. I will attempt to cross PS on that too.
At the moment I will first DO as much of the things as possible instead of talking about them, because there are enough people with better financial background than me, being able to top my thoughts if they got enough infos.
Your secret is safe with me…
I doubt actually that you have anything to worry about. Plenty of people with plenty of money have tried plenty of times and failed.
At the moment I have got two buds of persica that will flower within the next days, and that represent two different types that come from sources that are a few 1000 km apart from each other. …
That may be twice as much genetic diversity as Cocker and Harkness had.
Anyway, I second Pierre’s thoughts, and further suggest bracketing the species closest to Persica on Koopman’s chart. Omeiensis and hugonis are among these, in that order.
Best of luck to you (but chance favors the prepared mind).
My Tigris is growing very fine. My brother told me it won’t bloom this year because it’s on new wood. I hope it does but think this year is not my year. But lets hope their will be flowers. 
Hi Don & Pierre!
Koopman is one source and there is further info.
Also the circumstances and temperature shifts are of interest I think.
I did the two crossings today and studied the two types of Rosa persica, which are now documented in a first statement on helpmefind.
Comparing the flowers of two types of Rosa persica:
Type 1, the left one, is from Taschkent, type 2, the right one, from Persia.
Type 1 has a bigger stigma, purple or burgundy stamina (!) and more and straight prickles on the stems.
Type 2 has a smaller stigma, yellow stamina and less prickles, that are thicker and “crooked” on the stems.
The origin of the two types should be a few thousand km apart!
(I think this is the first comparing that has been ever done on different types of Rosa persica.)
Greetings & luck to you in your challenges, too!
Arno
Interesting! Do we know which Harkness was using? Thanks for sharing these.
Hi Robert, its the right one, that one from persia!
Here Jack Harkness wrote:
http://www.bulbnrose.org/Roses/breeding/Persica/PERSICA.HTML
“Filaments and anthers are yellow, and the stigmas are either pale, or slightly purplish; a colour variation I have not accounted for. The colouring of these organs has an important influence on the beauty of the hybrids. I have seen about a dozen flowers with no pistils, only a hole in the middle.”
Until today I didn’t notice the little difference to my own persica plants … I think thats really new info!
Filaments and anthers of my Taschkent plants (Type 1) are purplish or burgundy (I will make a photo-documentation for helpmefind). And even the carpels of that Type 1 contain that purplish colour - that one of the persian Type 2 are much lighter!
I can’t really tell you, which one might be nicer, they both do have advantages - it depends on what is aimed.
Which one do you like more? 
But, what could be important: the stigma seems to be larger in th Type 1 plants - so perhaps Hybrids from that plants will have larger stigmas, too!
Greetings!
Arno
Apparently, there is another persica hybrid called Tiger Eyes from Warner. It seems available in Japan and South Africa.
I stumbled on that info by mistake. Here’s the original place where I stumbled on it:
Yes, and they are all bred via “Tigris” - and so via the persian Type 2 of persica plants which has the yellow stamina and the smaller stigma … .
Ann, that is very interesting. Yes, the repeat blooming hulthemias will soon be available. There are several out there under test at various stages by several breeders.
Arno, your photos and descriptions of the two types are great! I wonder if there are other variations out there? Perhaps one of the types would be more likely to produce fertile hybrids???
Jim Sproul
I found the abstract for a paper by He Haiyang, Zhu Jinqi, et al. 2005. Morphological differentiation of the flower bud of Rosa persica. in Acta Horticulturae Sinica, Beijing 32(2) 331-334. The work was done at the Urumchi Environmental Resource Development Laboratory in Urumchi.
"The flower bud differentiation porcessof R. persica lasted 30 days from bract primodium development in late March to carpel primodium formation in late April.
There is a second paper referenced through the Sage search engine (which was not working well for me at the ag library) about the toughness of the achemes of R. persica.
Hi ann!
Great work, I don’t know this and I will try to get access to the works! (At the moment i have an aching back and only need a few hours to come down after lots of work.)
I have feelings about that point, that also the chinese seem to try to breed with persica, since a few weeks or few months, this year. …
Its like a missing aspect in their great rose history and in their existing variability in roses, - so this direction seems only consequent!
(Its surprising, but after thinking about it, it seems pretty plausible.)
And - they are also quite curious, no matter in which field and theme … !
Greetings,
Arno