Welcome to my thread where i’ll be documenting my random pollen chucking.
Pictured above is The Juliet, Catalina, New SPS, Jude The Obscure, and Emma Woodhouse.
I moved everything out of the airpots as they all had fungus gnats from being outside and I didn’t want to deal with them going in and out of hundreds of holes.
The pots laying around are for the Confiture, Yves Wedding Roads, Katherine, Yves L’esprit de Fille, and Mansfield Park coming in.
Everything will be transferred into a tent that is double the size, has twice the amount of fans, and triple the amount of LM301H LED panels after the second batch of roses comes in (Royale, Paradise, Eden Climber, Tamaki Misora, Arrietta, Han Xian, Queen of Sweden, Peony Red, Creamy.)
Current successful pollinations have been the Juliet to itself and the Catalina to itself. The next pollination will be Juliet and Emma Woodhouse as the Juliet is still throwing more flowers.
I’ll be following your progress! I was excited to do indoor pollinations but right before I got my first flower my refrigerator went out and I lost all of my pollen (and food). Now I’m not so patiently waiting for a pollen parent to bloom.
Aw man not the food too! I keep things at 35-40% RH. I had tried 30% earlier but with the amount of air flow going around the leaves suffered.
I‘m running them at 17 DLI at the moment on a 12/12 schedule to prevent damage to the stomata which happens with low periods of dark hours. They were at 20-21 DLI when I first got them but the root mass for three of the roses wasn’t large enough to handle the higher DLI.
Time until flower under lights for me was right around three weeks from receiving the plants from the vendor.
The spinosad spray and soil drench recipe I used ended up being way too strong. Everything got flushed with plain water but the new leaves took a massive hit. The burn from the spinosad will most likely invite black spot in from the new weak spots I created. I expect things to perk back up in a month or so with the next flush of leaves.
Once new leaves are produced, they should no longer develop blackspot, but the rest will probably persist without good control (although fungus gnats are fairly easy to suppress).
Yeah when I loaded up my tent last month the very first thing that happened was the established plants quickly succumbed to black spot and underwent either partial or full defoliation. I pulled every remotely sick looking leaflet off and the new growth came in without any blackspot, although some cultivars had chlorotic new growth until I tweaked the light hours and temperature levels.
They don’t spread through infected parts of the stem? I clipped what I could off but I think there’s probably some still left. That’s good to know though. Gives me less to worry about.
How long did that take? They’ve been in the tent for almost a month and I did pluck all of the leaves with black spot as they came up.
I found this study about running a 12/12 schedule for lighting. It fixed any chlorotic growth in my set up. It also prevents the stomata from malfunctioning as seen in the other light cycles.
On another note, i’m planning on being a guinea pig and buying two of these iPower 600W LEDs to toss into the 4’ x 8’ tent. At $200 a pop it’s a steal since that usually runs $500-$700.
I currently have two 320W LM301H panels from Kingbrite I can toss in the tent but they’d be running maxed out if I use them to cover the whole tent at 450 PPFD.
With the efficiency rate listed at 2.7umol/J for the panel I’m guessing that the diodes are either LM301D or LM301B which is fine with me. I’ll compare my LM301H’s strung up at the same height measured with an apogee extended par meter to get a better idea.
I’ll be interested to see how much light your tent roses can take at that wattage. I run 100w on 24/0 and dont get much flowering. If it turns out you can force flowering under intense feed and DLI in soil then I might have to give that a try.
My 4’ x 4’ tent is flowering at 240W 12/12. I’ve been pre-budding most of them so they can grow a bit more before I hybridize. I’ll most likely be running the 4’ x 8’ at 500W total.
Most of my plants were either semi-dormant or still faltering under the inevitable end season blackspot, so by day 3 I had defoliated most or all leaves since they were already pretty bad. My largest pot, a knock out variety, held onto about 60% of its leaves. I think by day 10-14 I started seeing a good push of new growth from most plants, with flower buds emerging soon thereafter. The knock out didn’t start growing much until I harvested the hips, which turned orange very quickly amidst the heat and humidity.
The big exception was my species rugosa which did not react well and was ultimately placed back outside. I ultimately settled on roughly 12/12, although I don’t have my light on a timer so it’s more/less. And my light intensity varies based on how hot/cold it is outside as I try to keep my temp around but not exceeding 80F. On colder days I can go brighter without the light overheating the tent.
10-14 days to get out of semi dormancy is not bad at all. I was worried about getting future shipments during that period where they’d be in that state but 10-14 days is something I can deal with. I’ll most likely turn one side of the 4’ x 8’ into a low light area so the plants don’t get shocked.
Was there any resurgence on the new leaves after plucking?
I noticed something similar with my Juliet that had canes with hips where the axillary buds wouldn’t be growing. Meanwhile the canes without hips would have multiple axillary buds at 3-4”. I started pre-budding due to that reason alone. Skipping a flush or two would give me a substantially larger plant with I’d assume a 2-3 month delay.
What was happening with the rugosa?
More or less 12/12 should be solid as long as you’re around the ball park the stomata shouldn’t malfunction. That’s understandable since you’re propagating in there as well.
How do you like the 2’ x 4’ for propagating and what is the average PPFD you run at?
I was planning on setting one up with a humidifier set to 80-85% with the exhaust running every 10 min for 10 seconds so that the air stays fresh. I’ve been testing it out without any roses cuttings in it and it dips down to 82% with the fan on and quickly climbs back to 85% with outside temps/RH at 67F/40%.
I’ve tried propagating Juliet bouquets before without a humidifier/timer on the exhaust in a humidity dome. I’m not sure if it was just me or if it was because they were from a bouquet from a different country but it took me forever just to see a callous. Granted the lights were set at 24/7 and the vents on the dome were closed so that probably didn’t help.
I’d say the more stubborn plants took closer to a month to start pushing out new growth with much vigor. I’m sure you’ve noticed that I’m pretty unscientific about the whole thing but anecdotally it appears that the plants in larger pots broke dormancy faster than the plants in 1 gallon pots.
No resurgence of black spot. One rose, Charlene de Monaco has been a vigorous grower but very chlorotic and some of its new leaflets has begun dying. It is also the only larger potted rose that has shown no signs of flowering. I will probably evict it if it doesn’t flower in the next two weeks. Also idk if this is useful info but last spring any roses that I grew indoors almost immediately defoliated all leaflets grown over the winter.
Whereas most other roses eventually held onto a few leaflets and then their buds began swelling, the rugosa lost it’s remaining foliage and it’s semi-dormant buds began drying out and turning brown rather showing signs of life. Perhaps it wasn’t a species issue and just needed more time, but when my freezer gave out I presumed to have lost the only pollen I really cared to cross with a rugosa anyways.
The 2 x 4 tent is less space than I evidently need, but it does fine. My success rate with rooting and grafting has been phenomenal thus far.
My wife and I have a much larger tent in the garage, 8 x 6 I think, where we keep the rest of our overwintered plants and are growing out native seedlings to sell come springtime, but it also serves as an overflow for roses that I don’t want to overwinter or monitor daily. Honestly the roses in that tent might be growing healthier and faster than they were in mine, but not a single one has even tried to flower. It has an older set of grow lights, the red/violet ones with built in fans used mostly for cannabis growing. They are super hot but we’ve used that to our benefit by setting them to turn on at night and even when it hit 20 degrees outside the tent in our unheated garage only dipped down to 48 degrees. When we finally move all of those plants outside I will experiment using that much larger tent for bulk propagations.
I have never checked PPFD levels or any metric other than temp and humidity.
One month for the stubborn ones is actually pretty solid. I was thinking it’d take 2 or more so that’s really goods news. No black spot is even better news. Before I burned the leaves it looked like it wouldn’t be back. I did look at the plants again today and the spinosad damaged leaves did look like it had burns + black spot. Once I get all of them happy again I probably won’t see it again.
Huh, I wonder what that’s all about. One would think that once a rose is placed in better conditions the rose would keep the leaves rather than drop them. I guess the shock got to it I’m not sure.
That would be an interesting experiment for next year. To see if the rugosa just needed more time or if it was something else.
What’s your usual process for propagating? Yeah a 2x4 can be rough! I’ve been thinking about getting 3-4 layers of shelves to make it easier but man those shelves get quite pricey! It’s cash that could go to more roses.
Those red and violet ones should produce enough ppfd for flowering too. Could be a spectrum thing with them not flowering. I was looking into it yesterday about the red/far red spectrum producing faster growing/longer canes. That alone would be a great tool for propagating. A dip to only 48 with 20 outside is really good too. Love when items are dual purpose like that.
It can come in handy especially if you’re having an issue with a plant so you can rule out light as an issue. There’s a free app on the phone i believe photone which is about 10-20% off a professional extended par meter.
On a series of unfortunate events I went in the new tent today to turn the inline fan a bit higher and it sucked up a random string and broke half of the blades. Sucks since the fan was only 3 months old but it wasn’t all bad as I had a spare inline fan. The back up is a 6” replacing a 8” so i’ll eventually have to get another once more plants fill up the 4’ x 8’.
But, other than that I used my epar meter to dial in the 4’ x 8’ tent. With the two 320W panels set at 80% with 1.5ft distance I get 400-500 PPFD across the canopy. I’d assume with the 600W panels at 40-45% I could get more even coverage.
On another note, the AusJameson has some exogenous seeds forming. I didn’t know that roses could even do that so it was a nice little surprise. The lights are off right now so i’ll edit that in here when they turn on tomorrow.
They’re quite large. I had pollinated the Juliet multiple times over the course of a few days to make sure I didn’t miss the window. I’m planning on cutting some of them open to see if I can skip the wet cold stratification period.
This photo is a couple days after it opened up so it’s lost some of the apricot color. It’s Juliet/Ausjameson from blush bloomery. I’m a bit confused as to why there is no pink to it as my indoor temps are 66-68 in the tent. I might have to try one from another vendor or propagate from a bouquet.
