Hi,
to sum up, ‘Persian Butterfly’ is fully repeat blooming, has a good blotch and is of good growing.
Again, I am suspiciously that a beginner can instantly breed, grow and market such a seedling.
The world of roselovers is very small and certainly I will find the original breeder.
I don
I still want to know how they got ‘Euphrates’ to work.
Simon,
I think the Vierlaender
Simon, you talk about Euphrates in your message above.
Are you able to steer me to a nursery that sells Hulthemia hybrids in Aus?
In Australia, you have Tiger Eyes.
It’s too bad that so many so many of these hulthemia hybrids are sold so widely apart. And so difficult to obtain in the United States…
No… we don’t have ‘Tiger Eyes’. The only one I have so far been able to find and buy is ‘Euphrates’ from Mistydowns nursery. Rosa perisca is not in the country and hardii is meant ot be here but I can’t find it. I would be interested to see where you heard ‘Tiger Eyes’ was here because I can find no reference to it anywhere.
I’m sorry.
For some odd reason, I thought the nursery was in Australia. It’s in South Africa, folks.
Hmmm…
I’ll let you know Simon if I come across anything “better” than Euphrates in my travels.
George
Yes, Euphrates is no good for breeding, but I’ve grown Tigris, Euphrates, Nigel Hawthorne and every one of Ralph Moore’s Hulthemias and of all of them, mildew addicted, mule-ish Euphrates is the soliatary one which REFUSES to die, no matter what happens to it. Fried by the full sun with no shade nor water, frozen, run over by lawn mowers, eaten by vermin, you name it, the blamed thing will NOT DIE. Kim
Nice to see you here Kim.
Kim… mine might drown here… wonder if I can grow it like a mangrove…
Thanks, Robert. Sorry it’s been a while. I imported Euphrates from Harkness in the early 80’s. One of the plants grew on the slope of the old garden and was eventually burried in erosion from one of our El Nino rain years. I just KNEW it would rot and suffocate. Nope! Dang thing rooted, EVERY stem, every cane, rooted and I had twelve or thirteen plants to share with anyone who would take them. Giving those away back then was like trying to find homes for flea ridden kittens.
Rooting the three Harkness Hulthemias in the old mist propagator at The Huntington was a snap. They took off like weeds. The difficult part was hardening them off. They loved the ten second mist every minute in the half coarse builders sand and half perlite. They didn’t like being partially fogged when the wind carried it from the mist table, planted in the growing medium we had. Kim
Sorry to hijack this thread… Kim, did you import ‘Euphrates’ to use in hybridising (before its sterility was known)? If so, I don’t suppose you have any records lying around showing what you put it on (or put on it) to try and make it work do you? With this persica hybrid being the only one we can get I would like to try it on all my most reliable seed setters to see if I can fluke a seed or two and no point in going over old ground… I have four stand out roses here that produce seed extremely easily with almost anything I throw at it. They are my multiflora plants (you only need to look sideways at them and they set seed with anything), Ralph Moore’s ‘Gold Coin’, ‘Altissimo’, and an unknown HT I found on my property when we bought it. Others set seed well too but these ones stand out for the sheer number of hips and the ease with which they take pollen (the multiflora is super healthy, ‘Gold Coin’ is a nice healthy little rose, the others less so…), and how easily their seeds germinate and I figure if it is to work at all the first trick would be to try and get something fertile out it and then work on health, vigour, and form. So would be interested to hear whether anyone has actually tried it and what they have used it with.
Hi Simon
I am down in NZ and have the same difficulty getting persica hybrids to play with. I have used Euphrates for years and have little to brag about. It has never set a single hip ever so I would not advise spending any time pollinating its flowers but it is possible to get some pollen. I have put this pollen onto my best seed producers and produced hips.
I have only recently read that the blotch is reluctant to appear in descendants so perhaps some of the many seedlings were hybrids but I dumped all of them because there was no blotch and I was not convinced they were in fact hybrids.
More recently I used Euphoria (intereup) as mom. It is reputed to have hulthemia ancestors and is a great seed setter. I now have a small batch of seedlings which show characteristic foliage and prickles but so far few have flowered (yellow, single, no blotch). These seedlings I feel are definitely Euphrates seedlings. So it can be done!
If Euphrates is all you can get, give it a go.
Your last resort could be to contact breeders (most likely British for you) and ask if they have varieties on trial with nurseries in Aus. They may give you permission to use their unreleased varieties.
All the best
Mike
Thanks Mike! Your words are very encouraging. Talking with Jim, and reading his replies on here, he mentioned he felt the blotched was probably a dominate characteristic but that when combined with roses with a strong halo influence the blotch could be hidden in a recessive fashion. Maybe choosing a rose with a weak halo influence might be a first step towards seeing more of a blotch. I don’t really know what this means yet but am doing some reserach in preparation for the arrival of ‘Euphrates’ (which is late!!!). Thanks again for your words of encouragement. I would love to see some photos of these 'Euphrates; seedlings of yours 
Rene,
It is a relatively smaller group of breeders that have repeat blooming Hulthemias. I think that you are right to suspect that this one might be coming from someone other than the sellers. The word is out.
Jim Sproul
Jim, does your repeat blooming Hulthemias look anything like the original plants (I mean in terms of foliage, thorns, and barbs.)
How are the disease resistance of these compared to the 1st and 2nd generations?
I’m disappointed this year. A great deal of my Livin’ Easy X Persian Sunet hips are aborting, although I’ve still save the seeds and hope that they will germinate.
Although, I have a good deal of hips on Perle d’Or.
This cross really excites me because there could be potential for Hulthemia style polyanthas… small compact plants with tons of flowers and all with eyes.
I think the biggest novelty in Hulthemia would be as a large flower climber like Altimissmo.
Enrique, One of the things I told Jim I wanted to try was putting a hulthemia hybrid on gigantea or a gigantea hybrid. I was imagining, as you aluded to, a massive climbing single with a blotched eye
Jim,
I sent some detailed photos to Robert Harkness and he wrote
‘… I can see it is extremely similar to our cultivar ‘Harsidon’ (Alissar, Princess of Phoenicia). I believe it is impossible for two original, separate cultivars sharing these particular characteristics to appear at the same time…’
Two days later I saw that this rose is no longer listed at the nurseries
Rene, you said…“They tell bloom color to be dancing”… LOL now the bloom has danced all the way out of their catalogue!!!
Simon, has your Euphrates arrived yet? Is it good quality? is it grafted?