I have one Persian Sunset. It’s my most difficult rose, by far, and I’ve not been able to get good flowering out of it, or hips. As far as disease resistance goes, it’s given me no troubles at all. The problem? It just doesn’t want to grow, let alone flower. It didn’t lose it’s leaves over the winter, but it’s not growing new ones either (the rest of my roses have). I don’t know if it doesn’t like this area, or if I’m just too inexperienced to know how to take care of it properly. I wanted to use it, but I think it’s just too difficult for me. But if anyone has any tips for making this rose happy I’d be glad to hear them. One thing, my soil is very silty here, and while lots of ammending, mulching and feeding has been enough for the other roses so I wonder if that is the problem? I don’t know. I’m considering trying to pot it to get it entirely out of the silt but I don’t have a good track record with potted plants so I’m a little wary of trying to pot my most difficult rose when I’ve never tried to pot any others.
Wow, Jim, after looking through your pics I have to say I love J29-1, J137-2, Purple Leapord, the lavander striped shrub and the Stainless Steel x Singin’ in the Rain. Amazing! Thanks for posting that.
Jim - WOW, WOW, WOW!
I have to know if the “unusual mini” (white with red stamens) is still going strong. Seeing that rose made me realize the endless possiblities. Thanks for the inspiration.
That “purple single seedling” is a doorbuster. That should be on the market.
So many beautiful roses, your garden and greenhouse look like heaven. Thank you.
Lori
Amber, ‘Persian Sunset’ blooms mainly in the spring on old wood, so shouldn’t be pruned back severely. It might do better in a pot. I have mine in a 3 gallon and it seems to be doing well. Thanks for the comments on my seedlings!
Lori, thanks too! The “unusual mini” is still around, but will not be released since it doesn’t bloom enough. The plant seems to have gotten good blackspot resistance from its pollen parent, ‘Baby Love’. If the bloom could be placed on a floriferous shrub, it would have a more interesting effect. The purple seedling had a bad plant under it. I have continued working with purples, but haven’t quite gotten that color combo again. If you’re not using it yet, ‘Midnight Blue’ is a good purple to work with.
Jim Sproul
Thanks Jim. I haven’t pruned it all yet this year, so maybe I should just let it be? I also tend to have mild winters and cold summers, so it may not like that either.
Jim, I recognize that purple seedling – I had gushed about it on your site a few years ago! Sorry to hear that the plant upon which those blooms hang doesn’t merit them.
Just out of curiousity – and way off the subject of this thread – I have heard that purples can be enhanced by crossing with yellows (?) but haven’t tried it… Does Baby Love allow purple offspring?? I can’t help but wonder – armchair hybridizer that I am – what that purple baby would do crossed with B.L…
Thanks for the link to your new site…
Hi Philip,
I have done many crosses of ‘Midnight Blue’ X ‘Baby Love’. There was a great variety among the seedlings - minis to shrub-types and singles to fully double. Color range was pinks to darker purples. I think that there are several nice roses yet to be found in that cross.
Incidentally, I think that the purples somehow do well in crosses with the hulthemias.
Jim Sproul
That’s one of the reasons I think they should be tried again with Hybrid Rugosas.
Jim, how much practical experience do you have with purple/hulthemia crosses? What type of plants would such yeild?
Along those lines, Jadae, I imagine that early generation rugosa’s might offer some qualities to overcome the hulthemia’s shortcomings including resistance, vigor, and rebloom, no? But wouldn’t the main assets get lost? What would one hope for, at best, in a flower? A pale mauve with a deeper red eye?
Have the Hulthemias been crossed with other yellow species such as R.banksia lutescens (…now that would be interesting given their differences…) or R.xanthina (or primula or harisonii), or a beast like mermaid?
"Along those lines, Jadae, I imagine that early generation rugosa’s might offer some qualities to overcome the hulthemia’s shortcomings including resistance, vigor, and rebloom, no? But wouldn’t the main assets get lost? What would one hope for, at best, in a flower? A pale mauve with a deeper red eye? "
Nigel Hawthorne, on it’s own, is beautiful, but it could be better. It’s not about improving X but making Y.
There are examples of F1 rugosa hybrids with yellow roses that are either yellow or showed good yellow influence - ‘Agnes’, ‘Grace’, ‘Topaz Jewel’… so it’s definitely worth a shot. I wouldn’t count on much fertility and probably some unfortunate growth anomalies so it would pay to grow out a lot of seedlings and not be too fussy about using even the ugly progeny as long as they’re fertile. I think Paul O. would agree with a recommendation of ‘Schneezwerg’ for the task.
Stefan
Stefan, you are correct. For some reason I have a mental block concerning yellow rugosas, but as I recall, Tom had a very interesting rugosa/xanthina hybrid which bore yellow blooms.
And yes, Jadae. I wasn’t familiar with N.H., and only just now “helpmefinded” that one. It is beautiful – really spectacular in the photos there.
I guess I wasn’t so much asking about improving x, but wondered, “y”?
So now you have me wondering about using other roses in the cinnamomae such as glauca and moyessi with the H. persicas… probably no chance of recurrence, but potentially cool looking plants, no?
Mind you, I’ve never even seen a persica hybrid in person, let alone tried to hybridize with such…
Philip, in my own experience, I have seen a tendancy for better blotch development in seedlings having ‘Midnight Blue’ and ‘Geisha’ in their ancestry. This may just be a coincidence. I have also seen some very good hulthemia work through Chris Warner’s group in England. One in particular was developed by a gentleman by the name of Peter James that also had “purple” ancestry, that has an excellent blotch.
Bringing the blotch into a whole array of rose forms would be very interesting. There is still much room for plant improvement, but I think that good progress is being made.
Jim Sproul
My Tigris is blooming heavily.
After two years, I will finally get to do some real work. Although many of you have said it maybe better to start off using Persian Sunset (which I have and a few a sparse amount of seedlings)
I think I will take a different direction. Instead of using tetraploid pollen on Tigris, I’m going to use diploids.
Currently, I have Mutabilis from last year.
My Champney’s Pink Cluster is about to bloom very soon.
Although, I heard that it’s very hard for Tigris to set hips and that it doesn’t self pollinate.
So what do you guys think about this stragedy.
Just let it bloom. No petal removal. No emasculation. I will pollinate with either Mutabilis pollen or Champney’s pollen.
Or should I actually remove the petals and the anthers to ensure that my cross will be free of contamination of foreign pollination by insects?
Jim, the commonality of the roses you mentioned seem to have a lot of cyanidin. I believe, intuitively, that one of Geisha’s parents is an older red floribunda or their own hybrid of one.
Lilac Charm and Tom Brown would be interesting with your hulth. creations.
I’m putting Persian Sunset on some single yellows now.
I’m also going to use Lilac Charm since it tends to lower petal count and because it’s easy and I have it handy.
I told myself I wasn’t going to get involved with the Hulthemias.
I guess I got caught up in Jim’s enthusiasm too.
I was the same, Robert.
It would be VERY interesting to combine the persica genes with the banksia genes with your Lila Banks.
I planned this year to cross Basye’s Legacy with Persian Sunset.
Because Basye’s Legacy has a tendency to reduce petal count.
My Basye Legacy isn’t blooming, just my luck.
However, my Queen Elizabeth X Basye’s Legacy seedling is in bloom. So, let’s see how my luck will be.
My kordesii is about to bloom, so if I’m lucky, I may be able to sneak in at least one attempt of a Persian Sunset X R. kordesii.
Enrique, I like your idea. I have some ‘Tigris’ seedlings that sprouted in 2004 that are blooming for the first time and one in particular is quite nice. I am hoping to get this one into the repeat blooming lines.
Jim Sproul
Wow, looks great Jim.
I am trying the Hulthemias now. ‘Persian Sunset’ certainly produces a lot of pollen.
Jim, great looking seedling! It is probably a good thing that I can not find Hulthemias up here. I have certainly been tempted.
Liz