Bringing up the past a bit here… Robert, did the petal count on this one progress past 4? I got a current season OP ‘Flower Carpet Scarlet’ seedling that has had two flowers so far (hot pink with a white eye) and both have only had 4 petals. First time it flowered I didn’t see it until it was quite old and I thought it had begun to drop petals and had lost one… then the second one came out and it was a perfect little 4-pointed star. I’ve been really busy of late and so didn’t get a photo… but there is another on its way that should be here in the next few days… I’m interested to see whether this feature is stable. It is showing all the tendencies to want to be a ground cover rose so far with excellent foliage shape/colour/health. Maybe strong coloured four-petalled stars would look good enmasse on a ground cover rose???
Hi Simon, thanks for using the archive feature of the forum.
Many times topics have been explored in the past and many times valuable information is waiting if we take the time to look.
Yes, that seedling did develop five petals. I’ve been exploring it for it’s breeding potential.
I really like the 5-03-09 photo! It has turned out to be a lovely full single (if that makes sense… full in the sense of it having an almost round outline rather than spaced out)… I have a nice dark red/purple/yellow blend single at the moment, that I’m guessing will unfortunately gain petals over the years, and Paul commented that it had nice symmetry (see link)… I hadn’t thought of it like that before… but I think it’s true… good radial symmetry in a single is a most attractive feature. So I can probably expect my little four petalled rose to gain at least another one over the next few years then… I hope it turns out as nicely balanced as this one.
Link: cherokeehill.blogspot.com/2010/01/my-first-dark-purplered-seedling.html
It’s true, all singles are not created equal.
I love singles but they are an acquired taste for most people.
They seem to work out best as landscape subjects.
Simon, the irony of Wild Rover is that Spice of Life also is not heat resistant, which it gets from Westerland. Flutterbye, the other half of Spice of Life, loved the heat when I had I used to grow it. I actually wish I still had Flutterbye. I got rid of it when the black hills spruce eventually grew into it and Flutterbye failed to compete, lol. I refused to pruce the BHS since it was dug up from where I was born when it was a seedling. So, I guess this all relates back to heat tolerance, eh?
‘Rhapsody in Blue’ also hates the heat… it is sulking right now… ‘Wild Rover’ loves the heat shrugs Its seedlings seem to love the heat too…
NOTE…according to HMF:
Wild Rover does not have Westerland nor Flutterbye in its pedigree at all.
You seem to have confused the parentage of Wild Rover’s mom Spice of Life (seedling x pathfinder), with that of Spice so Nice (westerland x flutterbye).
no big deal, whateva…
In my experience, five-petaled roses tend to bloom a lot more generously than the more complex flowered ones.
Although Jadae spoke of the top of his head and was thinking of, ‘Spice so Nice’, he’s right about the heat tolerance of issues surrounding ‘Westerland’ and ‘Flutterbye’.
‘Wild Rover’ sounds intriguing. I tend to wait a few seasons before acquiring this or that for breeding purposes.
It’s generally true no matter how successfully a rose is marketed, the reality of how it performs in any particular climate eventually comes to light.
Some hybridizers seem to consistently produce better products than others for certain climates. Some lineages interest me more than others. Thank goodness for HMF.
The market is being flooded now with new “blue” mauves. People only have so many places to plant roses. Once they have something in place it may take years before they try another. It’s hard to know what will be the next big thing.
I meant to mention, as Paul states, singles usually flower more. They have less resources vested in production of particular blossoms.
It make sense that they would compensate by producing more.
I have to say they also naturally set more hips which can slow them down considerably.
I am going to purchase Westerland and use it as a seed parent.
I am finding ‘Westerland’ to have some valuable properties when used in breeding. I am starting to wonder why it hasn’t been used more. It oughtta be, IMO.
Have you seen this, George?
Link: www.roguevalleyroses.com/product_info.php/products_id/1747
Paul,
Janet Inada blooms happen to be in the spectrum of “happy” colors I am always drawn to…and what with its intense fragrance and OGR blooms…well, I wish I had one in front of me now to take it all in!
BTW, thanks Paul for the westerland tip…if I use westerland this season I promise not to mix it with Abraham Darby…LOL!
“Congratulations” to you, hope is sells like crazy. :0)
“I promise not to mix it with Abraham Darby”… why? Immitation is the most sincere form of flattery 
Seriously… you could do the same cross a hundred times and get different results every time. I think it would be wise to ‘follow Paul’s lead’. If you ever get the chance to visit Tasmania, George, makes sure you do so in November and visit Longford and the National Rose Garden (Woolmers Estate). They have a ‘Westerland’ covered walkway that will make a serious impression (I think I uploaded a photo to HMF of it). I’ve tried germinating OP hips from it and failed. Tasmania is not the best place to test heat resistance either… ‘Westerland’ grows strongly here and whilst it gets real hot it is not very humid here in the summer either. It might just be that it doesn’t like hot AND humid conditions where Jadae is (as he’s often alluded to the fact that his air is often so wet it’s like being underwater ). Who knows…
Back to the singles thing a bit… Is there a correlation between singleness and petal substance? I often notice that most of my singles don’t seem to last very well on the bush. This little four petalled seedling’s flowers have lasted barely more than a day so far (does subtsance and longevity improve with maturity too or is it a WYSIWYG trait?)… they don’t seem to be overly thin petals… they just don’t seem to last.
In my experience there’s no correlation between petal substance and petal count.
Check out ‘Golden Wings’, a single with excellent substance It looks delicate, but it’s tough as nails, even to dry winds.
I’ve had a budded ‘Westerland’ here for about 10 years. In general it’s not particularly happy. It blooms too late in Spring for me to use it for seed. It’s already too warm that time of year in my climate. It will set hips in Fall.
I’ve been meaning to use it for pollen but for some reason it just never seems to be available when I need it. I don’t store pollen. (so far).
Oh Simon, your photo of “Westerland Arches” is truly magnificent!
But, I am surprised the OP achenes did not germinate for you, it is supposed to be an easy seed parent. Did you fetch loads of them, or was it maybe just a small number of achenes that happened by chance to be just duds…shrugs, shrugs…?
Yeah, I was thinking of Spice So Nice.
Westerland and Autumn Sunset will sulk as soon as it becomes hot here after its first bloom. They perk back up in the fall.
Simon, my guess for what happens is that when the humidty drops right after the spring blooming season, they sulk from the dry air. Maybe it doesn’t adjust well from going to watery air to dry air within a month?
I will have to get it and see… like I need ANOTHER climber around the place shakes head
What I did with both my Westerland and Autumn Sunset was make 4’ tall x 2.5’ wide cedar pillar boxes. I would chop down the plants to like 2.5’ in the winter and they would grow up the pop and through the side slats to form large, free-standing pillars. I liked to use them on harsh angles because the roundness of this effect smooth out the sharpness of unsightly landscape angles.