First germination of the winter

I like your goals. I’m a fan of Autumn Sunset and hope you get something nice from that cross!

Usually I don’t discuss germinations because so often I find nothing worth talking about at bloom time, or disease testing time in the next summer. But today I planted out 4 dozen seedlings that had sprouted in their stratification mix (vemiculite-calcium nitrate) after about 4-5 mo in the frig. They are interesting to me at least because the pollen donor is either Above and Beyond, or my #1100 a similar colored once-blooming shrub derived from Carefree Copper which in turn is from Austrian copper. so they ought to have hardiness in the pollen side of the family either way. Some packets were of High Voltage, others from a New Dawn hybrid with a yellow mini, others from Arctic Sunrise, or Brite Eyes. Probably a couple others I forget. For some crosses this is 1/4 of the seeds but for most is is nearer 10 %. So IF I am lucky there will be more seedlings. I doubt these are all selfs, though they could be. What I want is a repeat-bloomer with the same color range as the pollen parent, totally disease-resistant and with thorns less than in inch long. I also have maybe a couple hundred more seeds in packets that haven’t shown germination so far, with the same pollen parents…


You have some very interesting parentage. I hope you get some really nice yellows, oranges or peach colored F1. Is your New Dawn hybrid x yellow mini a climber?

About a dozen seedlings up of Hansa (pollinations from Mary Rose, James Gallway & Othello)
Half a dozen Rudelda x Lady of Megginch seedlings up
A couple golden celebration X williams double
Half a dozen Martin Frobisher X either Theresa bugnet or Lilian Austin
Seedlings up from my own seedlings that I believe are (Theresa Bugnet X nutkana?) x Mary Rose, Abraham Darby, Lady of Shallot, etc.

One of your goals is OGR style blooms?

OGR blooms with a little more cold hardiness. Disease resistance would be nice, although that will be difficult with these crosses, as will fertility.

I like some of those crosses. Good luck with them.

Thanks! I hope yours go well also.

The NDxymin that I mentioned above might be considered a climber but probably not. The original plant, totally neglected for a couple decades, gets about a ft long, sort of along the ground in very poor dry place with too much shade. The 5 or 6 that I grow in pots reach around a yard high because I prune them back some each winter so I don’t have to water the 3-4 gallon pots more than once a day. Under the same abuse ND makes longer canes than they do each summer. In fact it will pass 3 ft from a 1 gal pot, but with very few flowers. I suspect under ideal conditions, not in shade all summer, NDymin would be a good sized shrub. Flowers are not big, about like Little Darling. And only sort of yellow, depending on season and temperature. But it passes on yellow to offspring. Plant probably not to get as big as Above and Beyond, but that’s because each cane terminates in flowers with NDymin, and usually ND. The number of leaves per inflorescence is not a lot and the internode length is not huge. A & B has the advantage of being able to grow freely all summer without popping out flowers. So it gets taller faster.


Thanks for sharing about your NDymin. That is a cross I would have made as well. Hopefully you were able to get increased health over the usual for minis. Did you have further plans for it in terms of breeding?

I don’t have much going on yet, but this seems as good a time as any to put in a plug for Lemon Fizz. I’m finding a good number of strong early germinations coming off her seeds – much better than e.g. Carefree Beauty (no slacker herself) at this juncture.
The one and only cross with Kordes’ Soul Sister made a huge hip with 15 really fat seeds too. We’ll see what comes of it… I was happy with the shrub in its first year.


I used Lemon Fizz myself for the first time last season. I’m waiting on germination now. I really like this one.

Good luck with those, Rob! I think Joe had gotten some nice results from LF if I recall correctly from a video he shot some time back. I don’t recall if everything was single or if anything more full came from it, but I seem to remember some good yellows coming through even with near-species crosses. (Correct me if I’m wrong.)

Germination today from what I think are interesting crosses:

(Morning Magic x ILC1-72-1) x Campfire. My thoughts were increased resistance, yellow, good repeat, and good hardiness. I’m hopeful that MMILC3 is hardy to at least 5b if not 4b.

Yellow Brick Road x Campfire. This one also for increased health, yellow, good repeat and good hardiness. Hardiness? zone 4b and 3b

Ramblin Red x Never Alone. Looking for smaller stature, health, repeat bloom, red or red bi-color. Hardiness…two zone 3b roses.

Here is a pic of what is probably Lemon Fizz x Music Box. Semi-double.

It hasn’t been a strong grower, but certainly has the wow factor.

I think Julie O would caution against cercospora breakdown with the Kordes intros such as Lemon Fizz. Indeed one of the hybrids I was interested in, LF x R. carolina, ended up with some significant cercospora.

Crosses with a dominating bland pink such as Prairie Joy have yielded unspectacular slightly-yellow’s.

However, I’m still using it cuz yellow and super blackspot resistance.

Nice color Joe! How about crossing it with Campfire?

Congrats Joe: that certainly has the wow factor.

Good $%(*&%# idea, Rob! Hardiness and bloom power from Campfire, maybe some disease resistance and glossy foliage and equally outrageous phototropism from Music Fizz.

Looks like an improved Masquerade or Circus. That seems to have real potential.

A couple of interesting crosses that germinated today:

Swany x Campfire. Seedlings from this cross are 25% Rosa sempervirens and 25% Rosa wichuraiana so I’m hoping for increased disease resistance. Swany is hardy to zone 5 and combining with Z3b Campfire will hopefully give me at least zone 4b. I’m also looking for increased petal count and prolific blooming from Swany. And from Campfire, a shade of yellow would be very nice as well.

(Morning Magic x ILC1-72-1) x (Gold Busch x Joycie) Looking for a shade yellow, peach, apricot or orange, increased blooming, smaller stature and hopefully zone 4b.