Look up Art Nouveau if you haven’t seen it. A red rose with a yellow stripe down each petal. Really cool, and a good breeder for health. Thanks to Kim Rupert for giving me one years ago (I lost it so I only have descendants now.)
The top photo above is Art Nouveau x (First Impression x R. virginiana). I called it ANFIVI. I don’t have that one anymore either. The second photo is ANFIVI x All the Rage, code #1298.
The thing with Art Nouveau is that it seems to pass on either normal blossoms or blossoms that are too defective for the petals to fully form. Both of the above roses fit into the latter character. Despite the nice photo of ANFIVI, later blossoms were fairly stunted. You could walk by the second rose and not even notice that it is blooming.
So it’s interesting to think about how this petal defect is passed on…I’m assuming that it is a quantitative trait. That means it’s like a dial and can get passed on in different quantities and intensities rather than being an on/off switch. My assumption is that to get a rose like Art Nouveau itself you have to set that dial in just the right spot so the petals develop to full size but still have the stripe.
So to learn and hope, I collected a ton of OP hips from 1298 last fall and I’m growing out a bunch of seedlings. If nothing else it will be fun to evaluate what percentage of blossoms show the defect and to what degree.
I have to delete one of the pics because this forum says “new users can only put one media item in a post.” Frustrating. I couldn’t remember my login so I used Google.
Congratulations, Joe! I’m glad you’ve had fun with it. Isn’t it remarkable that result was mined from nasty old Roger Lambelin? Lambelin is terrible everywhere I’ve grown it. Addicted to every fungal issue there is and flowers that always failed to open. Thankfully, Peter James created something incredibly healthy in these parts.
Thank you so much for the information. Oddly with a quick Google search they didn’t come up as for sale… Which is weird as some are very recent! Very appreciative, will give it a bigger search at some point
And, that’s even on HMF! There, it’s listed simply as “Andrew”. 'Andrew' Rose If you encounter it, please feel free to photograph it and add them to HMF!
Of course. It’s our “job” to hopefully improve on that. I guess I was intending to mean the blooms. “Normies (to roses)/Weekend Warriors” can be picky as to what they will accept.
It reminds me of blossom end rot in tomatoes and peppers, where the terminal apex of the petals (and fruit) go necrotic because they outrun their calcium supply. The fix in those cases is to fortify the soil with soluble calcium and to apply foliar calcium supplements. There are various concoctions out there for the purpose. Soil pH is also a thing with blossom end rot.
I’m sorry I drop in here so infrequently these days. Just busy.
The open pollinated seedlings that the top post references have started opening their first flowers. I don’t have time to keep track beyond a quick look once in a while, but it looks like about 80% are quite deformed, maybe 20% normal. I have not spotted any blossom that bridges the gap.
Please can anyone confirm whether this is passed on via pollen or as a mother plant? Considering Adam in bare root season, but am worried it’s going to be sterile or something
It can be assumed that traits will be passed on with equal frequency whether from seed or pollen. There might be exceptions, but my assumption is that exceptions would be rare.
Your concern about sterility is valid, but that’s a separate issue.
In my experiment my assumption is that most of the seeds were the result of self-pollinations, so pollen and seed parents were the same.
I have had the petal defect trait pass on when making crosses using Art Noveau as a seed parent.
The question is how to get the defect to manifest without also greatly reducing petal size. My only thought is to cross a defective rose with a rose that has very large petals. And put it onto many different roses that have different genetic backgrounds and blossom types to try to find something that can “resist” the defect to just the right degree. Trying to turn a qualitative trait into a quantitative trait, perhaps.
Damn, I wish I had more time to pursue esoteric goals like this! I really have to pick and choose these days.
