Is Orangeade still worth a shot at developing new oranges? I have concerns about disease resistance, but the color seems quite intense, which I desire, and I have read of its fertility. Anybody have any experiences working with Orangeade in recent years, or any similar alternatives to peruse?
Reverence for roses has Kanegem in stock. I don’t have it but it has attractive decendents that are in the warm color range.
I have Florange. Both Orangeade and Florange have glossy leaves for me in the Mid Atlantic zone 6 B region. I like them as plants and the flowers are attractive. They both have health and a decent amount of vigor for me in my garden. I am only starting out so no seeds yet but for grow out plants at the beginning of a breeding program they look healthy and I got them for the purpose of breaking near species and species roses if I run into trouble with first and second choice options derived from the concept of using roses from the same classes as potential hybridization partners. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help. I was able to acquire orangeade and florange simultaneously from Rogue Valley. I am resonably confident that they are what they are labelled to be.
…also forgot to mention the most pleasant suprise for my second year of band grow out.
LEONIDAS which I got from Roses Unlimited IS NOT A GARBAGE PLANT HERE. Quite nice actually and not disease ridden as of yet. It has a faint fragrance that my nose likes. I feel a little bit silly about collecting so many OGR’s only to discover that my nose sends me signals that they all basically smell of fancy soap. I get none of the depth and musk and fruit that my nose receptors apparently appreciate much more. Leonidas can swing both ways apparently but is a very strong parent in determination of color and flower form it would seem from his offspring. I also suspect Honeysweet and Halloween might have the ability to give oranges and they are healthy within reason. I invest alot in quality soil and grow in very large pots just fyi. I can’t trust my soil here-it’s just acidic clay and it barely supports the feral multiflora in most spots.
   
Thank you for sharing your experience with those cultivars! Orange is a color that really attracts me, but I’ve been burned many times by orange roses that were good for others, but fell apart under my garden’s blackspot pressure. It’s nice to hear that some of these might not be quite as hopeless as I suspected, although they might still be seriously challenged here with my perfect storm of horrible climate, soil, and seemingly comprehensive library of blackspot strains. I honestly wouldn’t be very surprised to learn that a few new strains have evolved in my garden.
One of the reasons I’ve hesitated to try Orangeade is that Lynnie, which is a very healthy descendant elsewhere, could hardly keep any leaves on here. Orange roses with otherwise solid reputations for health have had serious blackspot issues for me, too, like Westerland (vigorous and beautiful during the spring flush, then an eyesore) and Pat Austin (I’ve lost several to severe blackspot already, even though it’s pretty good in other areas). It seems like a lot more breeding and selection work still needs to be done with this color.
Stefan
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You probably need to look at whatever orange roses are available from Kordes. People in high black spot areas appear to like their performance for them. Kordes apparently began breeding for fungal issue resistance a bit earlier than most others and may offer you some improvement.
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Maybe. I think most of them will be good in most places but I think much like east coast australia, they’d be meh in east usa though given a lot of what seems to do poorly there does poorly here, seems to be a lot of overlap in conditions/blackspot races/something between these locations.
I’ve tried many of the new kordes and while they hold out longer and often the foliage looks nicer, all of the Kordes yellows and/or oranges I’ve tried eventually get very spotty and defoliate or just spotty and hold on to the foliage while their kordes peers in reds/pinks/whites are very noticeably healthier (except botrytis which shows in quite a few of the Parfuma collection)
I haven’t tried, KOReliedpia (only in Aus so far it seems, is that deep red-orange, pelargonidin type, picture here ) or KORrosobi of the latest released here so maybe those but they don’t seem to be available in the US (yet)
KORkaans has been ok, it just progressively got spottier as the season went on but puts out new leaves. It’s seed fertility seems to be pretty high though, some mildew babies but not too bad.
The best yellows here have been Warners Chewability and CHEwgateway bred with reds may give something orange of the red over yellow type. I haven’t come across anything noticeably healthy here in the pelargonidin type colour so far and I’ve been looking for a healthy source high in that pigment for future uses.
From Noack there is a new orange coming Showpiece Orange I know the others have released in the USA, assume the orange won’t be far behind, no idea if good or not.
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One rose I am waiting for from Marissa from Greenmantle in California is Angele Pernet. My experience with Pernetiana’s gives me a gut feeling that their are external factors that give Foetida derivatives a bad reputation for blackspot. I have GruB an Coburg, Condessa de Sastago and Talisman. I know soil pH speculation is quite controversial among rose growers but I MUST SAY that following the advice of StrawAlkalineClay in Chicago I added significant lime to the soil mix that included native clay and a limestone pea gravel as a mulch on top of Condezza de Sastago and she continues to be absolutely flawless and glossy. I will report back after the dredges of the late summer flush and give honest assesments. Talisman is currently growing like a young tea rose and I do not have confidence she will give orange offspring.
Also the pernetiana’s I have seen have STRONG vigor and the ability to lose the leaves and not be killed off because of it. They’ll just push out more especially with a dilute dose of fish emulsion.
Clementina Carbonieri is an actual tea and Robert Rippletoe demonstrated she has seed fertility but the offspring documented appears to be a blush pink CLCXPPD. She might be a good momma to have in your arsenal. Mine is still so small- under 18 inches but her foliage is spotless and she is upright for a tea rose. I also picked up Beaute Inconstante this spring but no blooms to evaluate actual color in PA conditions. Lineage states that this tea is the child of 2 yellow teas and so I will eventually be testing it ability to give something near orange-pink. Don’t give up on orange-pink! It’s a step in the pathway.
A new orange rose could be had easy from the Lark Ascending but Austin botched the orders this year and I didn’t get mine! It is crazy seed fertile and had STRONG own root vigor. She would only need the perfect papa which was gonna be Leonidas but that dream died. If you got access to it go for it! I’ll send you frozen pollen if you want. I actually do not know that she is seed FERTILE but she has a blatant rep for producing MANY hips.
I don’t know how this will help you but I purchased Gelber Engel a yellow kordes floribunda rose from Freedom Garden Roses in Ohio this last weekend. Just another tiny band to fuss over and coddle. I must say that the foliage is stunning! Like bracteata flawless except its distant species origin is from a rubignosa. It has many yellow and even orange offspring and looks like a versatile parent that transmits healthy foliage.
Freedom gardens does not ship, I’m sorry. It does not seem easy to get this rose but check around and see what the local folks can do.
I grow Angele Pernet. She’s a wonderful, compact rose with truly flamboyant colors. No scent to my nose unfortunately, and I can’t comment on blackspot since that’s not really a problem down here, but she seems resistant to powdery mildew. I haven’t tried any crosses with her. I look forward to hearing your results if you try her! I like her a lot! Some pics:
I also grow the Lark Ascending. This is a rose I’m going to be getting rid of. I think she is truly a rose bred for English type climates. Down here in z11 she’s all plant, with long canes and very few flowers. The color is nice, but the flowers look like the DA website pics for a few hours, then shatter within a day. I had hopes this might improve in the second year but she didn’t. No scent. She sets hips freely, and I collected several OP hips from her last year. Zero germination. I hope she will be better for you.
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Damn! She’s gorgeous. Everything I dreamt she would be. The true pinnacle of the Austrian copper-Soliel d’Or lineage. I am jealous. So jealous. My day will come and I will have her at last and she will be the mother of many many viable baby roses. I particularly loved her fully open spent bloom forms on HMF. A rose of incredible beauty at every stage of bloom. Do the flowers last? The Trojan horse I fear the most is actually a flower that shatters too quick and what can you actually do to improve the situation when you want sunny orange gold? Totally useless for lei making and even just garden enjoyment. Maybe I am dodging a bullet with the Lark Ascending but Leonidas flowers last forever and I am not kidding about that,
I have stalked your member profile on HMF long before. I searched everywhere for Huddersfield Choral Society in the US and nobody has it listed. That one looks very purple. Got any more pics? Did you ever experiment with it for fertility? Thank-you so much for the gorgeous pictures, made my day!
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No guarantees, but occasionally you can find somebody who has grown hard to find roses on Etsy:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1455494385/rose-huddersfield-choral-society
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Whoop! Thank-you 
Only $70 with shipping! Mmmmmm. Maybe. I am nuts- and this rose is Pollen Fertile. Midnight Blue or Basye’s Purple would be fun mommas and I managed to get them and they are growing. Maggie and William III might also be very good and they are also doing well.
I will wait to see if Seaside Rooftop opines on the health and particulars of this variety.(But I did put it in my shopping cart)
I did not derail this posting in any way!!! Orangeade foliage. I am about to get my second set of blooms. The foliage looks pretty darn good enough here and my environment is adverse I would say.
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Gotta any leads for Belle Story? That one is a breeder, I don’t care what anyone says, there is incredible potential there. I want that one real bad. I’d take cuttings and buds. Anything! I will barter silver for a living specimen of any size and I am serious.
No seed decendents but Bronze Star looks good so far. I am assuming that JW has a crossed seedling and wants to add color to it, concentrate the pigments etc. Pam from Angel Gardens has Tip Top coming to size soon. It is a TrierXAustrian Copper polyantha cross that will ship out in the next few weeks. The lineage is interesting and the decendents look pretty damn good. She said she only has a few and I already have a sales contract with her for it so give her an email if anyone wants this one.
I care very much for the golden orange, orange pink, orange yellow, saturated apricot roses of the future. I bet someone could make a popular brand out of loose tropical looking container grown fragrant golden orange apricot roses as we, in time, move away from the pre-eminence of the English Garden Rose.
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I think it may be a climate thing. Some people in the UK love The Lark Ascending and say there are so many blooms it doesn’t matter if they shatter fast. But in a warm climate it is frustrating when you only get two or three blooms at a time and they’re gone before the day is over. Angele Pernet’s blooms aren’t very long lasting either to be honest, but you do get a good two or three days and I agree with you each stage is beautiful.
Huddersfield Choral Society is my favorite rose, I’m so glad you mentioned her. Originally I was looking for Lavender Crush, which is also a purple with white reverse, but LC isn’t sold in Europe so I got HCS as an alternative. I now have three of her.
Just saw that @roseseek has found a seller on Etsy!
Regarding HCS health it is flawless here. But again, we don’t get a lot of blackspot pressure so YMMV… Vigor is good but not crazy. She stays within her stated height. Thorns but not too grabby. Fragrance is strong. The plant itself is heat tolerant, but the blooms do fry in the summer sun. Then again that’s true of pretty much all dark roses down here.
Regarding fertility HCS is pollen fertile for sure, I used her last year and this year I am trying her again. Seed wise she sets a ton of hips, full of lots of seeds but for me, germination was dismal. Seems to behave like her supposed hulthemia ancestor in that regard. But yes definitely pollen fertile.
Pictures from this year:
Another exciting dark purple is Cosmic Clouds, just released this year! I guess we all yearn for the roses on the other side of the pond.
Oh, I didn’t mean to derail this thread. Back to the topic of oranges. One rose that I have seen a lot of positive comments about recently in spite of the awful name is Double Easy Orange. Seems to be healthy for a lot of people.
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I’m sorry? I don’t understand “Just saw that @roseseek has found a seller on Etsy!” I have nothing to do with Etsy.
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Sorry about that ! I read too fast and got mixed up! It was in reference to @lee_hull 's comment above.
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Thank you! LOL! I was confused!
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@roseseek HI! I’m just trying to get comfortable with the format and learn anything and every little thing that is possible to glean from the experience of others as this is a highly esoteric endeavor.
I never want to assume anything but you perhaps at one time had a desert garden hidden in Encino California and grew almost all the varieties we just gushed on about? Yes?
If so you have details about even rarer- perhap’s lost orange roses. What did you think of Angele Pernet?
Marissa still has Etoile de Feu and perhaps Burling but she did not respond when I asked. I also begged Burling for Persian Peach but she was also silent on that rose and I got Persian Sunset from Rogue Valley. Freedom Gardens had Modern Art for like 60 seconds and it was gone. Was it a diseased nightmare or vigorous? I think Modern Art is probably near extinction if not extinct. Was it a hybrid tea that needed to be grafted? Regale us with tales of your glorious garden!
Also- know anybody with a Belle Story? I have rootstocks kept for bud grafting…
Hi Spiritstonsilver, yes, I grew many of them, but it was in Newhall, CA, in the mid desert where rust and mildew were the main issues and black spot seldom expressed itself. I have an archive of what passed through that garden here in Help Me Find-Roses. 'A Hidden Sanctuary Archive' plant lists That garden existed for 18 years until “development” displaced it. I lived in Encino for several years before “cashing out”, retiring and moving north to the Central Coast. My current garden listing is here. 'Kim Rupert' plant lists
Angele Pernet I grew own root in the native desert soil, heavily mulched with as much horse manure as I could get hold of. It NEVER had the wonderful form the recently posted photo here showed and the color was never that intense. But, it was in a canyon in the Santa Clarita Valley where the temperature literally varied one-hundred degrees from winter to summer (15 to 115 F). The only “shade” was due to the sun setting behind the uphill side of the canyon, so colors faded and forms “blew” quickly. It wasn’t a “strong” grower as a number of others were, but it was acceptable. Now, Saturnia was a “strong” grower as were Mark Sullivan, Autumn and President Herbert Hoover.
Modern Art grew acceptably well own root, but remember, that was native California desert soil with COPIOUS horse manure mulch and copious water. In that heat with the nutrients and water, most of them grew well. You can’t imagine how glorious most roses are when grown in high heat and soil like that, being watered overhead by oscillating sprinkler! Spotless, HUGE foliage with enormous blooms! I never sprayed anything other than water. I didn’t use systemics. There were too many plants to spray or use any other chemicals and there was CONSTANT wind, so if I ever had any ideas of spraying anything, I would have worn it. There was MUCH wild life, being on the edge of the chaparral. This was Mother’s Day, 1994. It was the most I could get of the garden in one shot. It continued up the hill to the left middle of the shot and followed the down hill contour around the edge of the community golf course.
In 2005, it became this. Core samples indicated three ancient landslides in the area, so it had to be excavated to a depth of 60’, the soil mixed so it was uniform, then it had to be physically compacted so 90’ of slope could be built on top of it for condos to sit on. The shots were taken from the same vantage point. The oak hiding the pool had fallen in rains a few years earlier.
My largest disappointments were how many of Griffith Buck’s and the Morden roses were addicted to rust there. The only clean Morden I grew was Morden Blush. There, it was bullet proof.
I know several people with Belle Story, unfortunately most are “elderly” and have a lot going on in their lives. Where do you live?
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