Mention any rose, and someone can find a flaw in it. That is the nature of roses. Roses get diseases and are loved by deer, thrip, and other creatures with varying numbers of legs and feet. And some with only one slimy foot.
Charlotte Armstrong had a number of flaws (probably still has them). In areas where mildew is bad, Charlotte and many of her offspring get mildew. Garden Party? Check. Double Check. (In the right area, growing Garden Party is a way to have a white Christmas early.) Queen Elizabeth? Check. Golden Showers? Check. Chrysler Imperial? Check. And so on. Wiry growth and thin, long peduncles? Often. Consider Helen Traubel, if you can find her.
If you want fragrance and a long, exhibition bud and a variety of colors, Charlotte and her offspring can produce those. If you want a fat bud and buxom, quartered flower, and you can’t stand powdery mildew–try something other than Charlotte Armstrong, or move to an area where powdery mildew is not a problem.
Most blessings are mixed. With the long bud will often come narrow petals, and with the fragrance will often come susceptibility to mildew. Some red roses (such as Olympiad and its descendants) bring a different color of red, less mildew, and much less fragrance. Maybe at some point we can decouple fragrance and mildew, but I think that hasn’t happened yet. Baby Love seems almost free of powdery mildew in Southern California, but it isn’t free of blackspot where I live–until the leaves drop off, that is, and by then powdery mildew is a minor issue.
Choose what you want or what works where you intend the rose to be grown. And keep working to improve disease resistance of roses. They really are getting better, if very slowly.
Peter
Hi Warren,
Glad to hear that QE has given you good results! I used it when I first started breeding roses because I had heard that it germinated well - and was also impressed with the vigor of it’s seedilngs, but haven’t had it for quite some time. I am considering re-aquiring it.
It would seem that ‘Peace’ could fit a similar pattern.
Jim Sproul
Charlotte Armstrong was basically the matched set to Peace for the US. They were both the first step in retaining the positive Pernetiana traits without a lot of the negative traits like poor rebloom, massive die-back, poor hardiness, pencil-stems, and fleeting blooms. They were stellar for their time, and they can give traits modern roses cannot (like the crayoning ochre/rusty effect), but there are roses with much more to offer now.
Ralph did use QE and he was fixated on Playboy. HE didn’t usually have rust issues, but many of his roses DO elsewhere. That’s a huge failing in his smaller Bracteatas and the Halos. Too many of them one or more doses of Playboy in them and it’s often not easy to over come the problem. Both of these roses, while great in many places, are martyrs to rust anywhere it can be a problem.
There are two, huge old QE bushes here and I’ve tried them quite a few times in the past two years with many different pollens. I’ve trashed them all for either complete lack of vigor, mildew or rust. Oddly, none of the wanted to produce anything resembling strong root systems. Kim
Howdy Kim.
Firstly, does Playboy rust? I have never heard of it rusting here in OZ, used it in a breeding cycle here at home, just hope nothing pops up and supprises me.
QE In 2009, I thought I would try something a little different, crossed it with Abraham Darby and so far produced 2 really nice roses, with the vigour, both achieved a height of 3ft at the tender age of 6mths old.
Other crosses , the height is’nt as tall , but they are more compact and bushy. All are showing strong repeat blooming.
cheers Warren
Golden Wave (Dr A J Verhage) is a death sentence in the Pacific Northwest. It breeds die-back, mildew, and the want to only start any substantial growth/bloom when it becomes warm (ie. July).
Yes Warren, Playboy can RUST like an old nail. As can QE and Simplicity. All three are notorious around these parts. Very few of the Playboy offspring don’t rust around here. I grew it beautifully with NO care in Santa Clarita and was surprised when told it was terrible seventeen miles south in Sherman Oaks. I saw and I see, now I believe. It’s terrible anywhere humidity and warmth abound. In fact, it’s so bad I avoid anything bred from it with one exception, My Stars. Basye’s Legacy cleaned it up splendidly. How it will perform in the second and succeeding generations, who knows?
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.38242
Warren,
What were the blooms of the QE x AD like?..color, form, petalage. How thorny were they?
Thanks,
Jim P.
Firstly Kim, My Stars, is it pruned back hard each year or just lightly prune that is one compact little rose bush.
The area where I am Kim, you would say dry Mediterranean with an average rainfall of 15 " per annum so I dont see must rust around these parts.
Now to Jim, The QE X AD , it produced two forms, the 1st had form, colour and petalage similar to AD, its growth is more upright. The second , form was mid pink , petal count around 26 - 30 and classic HT form ( tight and high centred), growth on this one is more compact so far.
As for thorns, they are not overly thorny.
cheers Warren
Warren, I don’t prune mine much as the vermin eat much of it. Where you are sounds like where I used to garden, though the official Los Angeles rainfall average is about an inch less than your 15". Unfortunately, the closer to the ocean you get, the higher the humidity. It’s not as good a trade-off for cooler temperatures IMHO. Kim
This year in OZ we have had some strange weather, very wet spring with unusual summer rain, humidity has been around 40 - high 60’s %. I am about 3 1/2 hrs drive from the ocean and the terrain is flat as a tack head.
Its a waterfall here this week, lol. Its not even rain. Its just sheets of water and mist haha. I just stuck Harm Saville and PACthird (doesnt have a real name) straight into pots. Nature can flood out the air pockets itself 
PACthird seems to have retained 3 of 8 hips from the ‘Blush’ pollen. I think it may lose the remaining 3 and will be a pollen only rose. The white petals are amazingly rain resistant. Its absurd!
Warren, I have about 10 OP seedlings from ‘Commander Gillet’ out in the Test beds now that are showing great promise. They are strong and healthy and clean as a whilstle. ‘Commander Gillet’ was supposed to be used with ‘Basye’s Amphidiploid’ to make ‘Basye’s Legacy’. The leaves on my seedlings are identical to the photos Kim uploaded onto HMF of ‘Basys’e Legacy’ (see link). It goes without saying that I will send you some when they are bigger as I share Kim’s enthusiam about their breeding potential now that I have seen how healthy (and thornless), these seem to be. I also have OP seedlings from 88-390 (see: http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/13/33/54/62/88-39010.jpg) that are showing remontancy and good health as well. I’ll make these available to you over the coming years as well as they put on a bit of size.
See… this is the kind of thing I was wondering about with regard to ‘Peace’ (just to get it back on track a little 
). If put with something like these Dr Basye seedlings, or even back to species such R. carolina and/or virginiana, or fedschenkoana… or I wonder whether it might show something different and worthwhile (and thornless)?
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.156449
Howdy Simon, What I would do is use Sympathie to cross with (R.'s Carolina, Virginiana and Fedschenkoana) as these are tetraploids. Sympathie would have to be the best bridging rose I have come across, plus it gives a lot of petals. Get the F1 crosses , then pump in old Peace, I think the offspring would look quite snazzy.Plus you would have the benefits of the species.
Simon, what you suggest using Fedtschenkoana and Legacy is what I’ve been messing with for over a decade. There are a few continuous flowering hybrids, but most continue to be spring or summer flowering. Kim
Use something tetraploid with polyantha dominance. Its worked for nearly a century, lol. McGredy, Tantau and Kordes seemed among the more devisive of this pattern. I think it is why Buck employed the early poly/rubiginosa hybrids among his work.
Kim,
The OP ‘Carlin’s Rhythm’ seedling have started to flower. They are pretty good too. They are single pinks with a white eye so far but are also thornless and a very nice crisp pink too. I have about 20 Basye-line seedling options to follow now (OP Commander Gillet, OP Carlin’s Rhythm, and OP 33-890) that I’m looking forward to using. They seem universally good here in Tas. It would be good to send them further north into the heat and humidity to see how they cope.
I noticed on HMF that there is an Australian-bred miniature using ‘Peace’ (and ‘Rise ‘n’ Sine’ - see link), that looks to be pretty good here… I think this is a great looking mini that seems to love it here.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.37614.1&tab=1
Peace is not a rose I would have ever selected to purchase. That said, my parents have a plant of the climbing sport in their yard that has been there at least 40-50 years. It’s growing under a cedar tree of about the same age- barely hanging on to life. They’re also growing another cutting from it elsewhere in the yard that’s doing pretty well. Of course I had to get a cutting from it three or four years ago. It’s extremely easy to root and makes a vigorous own root plant. I have mine growing on the north side of a 6’ bush and a crape myrtle and it’s already over the bush and into the crape myrtle. It has a 1" main stalk at the base that forms a Y 5’ up- no branching to speak of. It will be defoliated from blackspot by mid summer (at which time it aborts hips as well). I’ve not had any seedlings from it yet.
Rise n’ Shine X Peace might be asking for big trouble regarding blackspot esp. in coastal climates like mine, where both are reduced to garbage paknts as soona s the lackspot gets going.
above entry should end reading:
…plants as soon as the blackspot gets going.
