I’m interested in producing very disease resistant yellow roses with an old garden rose appearance. As you may know, in many of our modern roses the genes for yellow flowers have their origin in Rosa foetida, notorious for it’s proclivity for blackspot. This weakness is frequently expressed in modern yellow roses. Thus, I am starting off with other yellow species (I know, they’re diploid) to achieve yellow coloration without the baggage from Rosa foetida. I’ve got those, but I need a source for fullness of petals and repeat flowering. I once owned Graham Thomas and it acted like a magnet for blackspot. Does anyone know how some of the other yellow Austins stand up to blackspot?
A lot of that is going to depend upon where you are and what strains of BS exist there, John. In my garden, the healthiest Austin sort of yellow, is The Pilgrim. It doesn’t seem to be affected by any fungal issues. I does demand to be permitted to generate six foot flowering stems before it will entertain any interest in creating flower buds. It’s also viciously prickly and extremely floppy. If it was situated (or even possible to be placed now) where it would be possible to train it against a wall, it may develop into a suitable climber, but it was planted as a free standing shrub by a landscraper fifteen-plus years ago where it can’t be easily removed without tearing up the terraces out front. If it helps, I am just north of Los Angeles. Graham Thomas and Golden Celebration aren’t healthy here, with black spot infecting both and mildew afflicting Graham.
I am starting off with other yellow species…to achieve yellow coloration without the baggage from Rosa foetida. I’ve got those
Which of those, exactly, do you have?
Hi John,
The yellow shrub rose ‘Dakota Sun’ is very healthy in my no-spray garden. It also has the very double flowers you like. Fragrance is light; I don’t know how much of a consideration that is for you. Growth habit is upright and it repeats well. I’ve been growing it for about 3 years but haven’t used it in breeding (yet), but it will sometimes set OP hips. You might also try a yellow mini like ‘Golden Angel’, a very double yellow with some fragrance and a proven seed parent, even for non-mini offspring. Not 100% immune to blackspot but very good resistance for a mini.
Bear in mind, however, that petal count is an additive trait. You can get offspring with a high petal count from parents that are semidouble to double. Often less double roses make better breeders because their stamens have not mutated into petals. Also, if you are working with yellow species, count on working through several generations of offspring. By the time you achieve what you really want, your garden will be full of yellow roses of all shapes and sizes! Good luck!
Betsy van der Hoek
Minnesota zone 4
Don, I have Rosa hugonis and Rosa banksiea lutea, both of which I intend to treat with Oryzalin in the hopes of creating autotetraploids. I’ve also thought about obtaining Harrison’s yellow. Although it presumably has Rosa foetida as a parent, every description I’ve read claims that it is disease free.
I’m fully aware that this will be a long-term project spanning many generations of seedlings, but then that’s the fun of it. Once I’ve confirmed that I have tetraploid species, I’ll begin crossing them with fuller petalled repeat bloomers. Those are the ones I’m wanting to learn about. They don’t have to be Austin roses, any disease resistant repeat bloomers are fine with me. I once had Leverkusen, which was supposed to be “disease free.” Not so in East Tennessee, and it was thorny enough to use as a weapon.
Who has experience with Sunsprite? I hear conflicting accounts about its performance.
Don’t bother with Golden Celebration then because mine spots worse than my Graham Thomas does. Have you looked at Julia Child? It’s very healthy for me and it has a pretty high petal count too.
Does anyone know how some of the other yellow Austins stand up to blackspot
Consideration could be given to his Jubilee Celebration. Whilst not a yellow, it clearly has yellow in it (its mom is Golden Celebration).
In my climate JC is the most disease resistant DA rose I have ever grown.
My location has very extreme BS / PM pressure.
I have no clue how JC behaves as a breeder rose yet, however mine has set hips containing seeds with normal looking embryos in them (with deliberate pollinations).
JC must be one of his best roses overall, IMO.
Unfortunately Julia Child is a BS magnet here in New Jersey.
With such conflicting opposite results on two roses labeled JC, I really hesitate to throw any more fuel on the fire. Around here Sunflare and Sunsprite get BS really bad. Decent bud, too fast opening.
I got perhaps my best rose from Golden Arctic, a rather forgotten Brownell that is quite hardy, very double light yellow. It got almost no BS except a little late in season. Never a useful plant with it as seed parent, not real fertile as such. But pollen on Carefree Beauty gave fully disease resistant Arctic Sunrise. Whether Golden Arctic would cross with autotetraploids species is really hard to guess. Carefree Beauty almost certainly would. It is very accepting, but lacks petals and substance.
Golden Arctic might be a good choice. I haven’t used it much, but it is quite healthy, and has that old-fashioned look. The one seedling I got from Golden Arctic was with Sweetness as a seed parent. The blooms looked a lot like Golden Arctic, but were mauve. They shattered within five hours of opening, however.
I have been using Yellow Submarine and Yellow Brick Road with some success for health. Another option might be Everblooming Pillar 124. I have a seedling from 124 that looks a lot like Golden Arctic, only miniature-sized. You would have to wade through a lot of seedlings that have a more conventional form, however.
Andy
I don’t know how this one will perform, but I’m going to try ‘Leverkusen’ this season. I’m hoping the fact that it is an F1 Kordesii hybrid will also impart health to yellows. Rob Byrnes has played with it a bit and not had much luck with it. It has quite a few descendants used as both a seed parent and a pollen parent so I’m hopiong it will be useful in making good healthy yellow landscaping roses when mixed with things like ‘Paprika’.
I’m interested in producing very disease resistant yellow roses with an old garden rose appearance One rose I have used from the Austin stable and ahd very good results is Charles Austin, It works as a pollinator and seedparent quite easily. If you are in a high BS area, you could try this rose as a pollinator on Charles Austin. This rose Lions Rose, Lions Fairy Tale and Champange Moment which it goes by all three names, stunned me when I saw its health in a friends garden, sometimes you don’t have to use yellow with yellow to achieve that colour.
I crossed Charles Austin X Vanilla and got High Roller a yellow, Vanilla is a white florist rose and its main purpose of use was to stiffen up the petals
[attachment 1106 HighRoller4.jpg]
[attachment 1107 SunlitYellow.jpg] Another Charles Austin X Vanilla
This rose Lions Rose was introduced by Palatine Roses (Canada) and Ashdown Roses (USA) so you shouldn’t have any problems locating one. With its apricot tinge and its structure, I think it will give you the desired results which you are after.
cheers
Wow, Warren! Those a two very beautiful blooms. I especially like the petal arrangement of Lions Rose.
Often less double roses make better breeders because their stamens have not mutated into petals. I would totally agree with you on that one Besty, If I am breeding a certain line , where I am going to use it in the future , I will not breed 41 + petalled roses together. I found you get a nice rose with no reproductive organs , due to their conversion to petals. One of my best breeders, is a rose I bred, which is barely a double , but when matched up with the right pollinator magical things happen.
Charles Austin here, is pretty good health wise, but it depends on what you cross it with to keep the health stable.
What about Happy Child? Anyone ever play with that one?
John what I do , before I order a new plant in to breed with is to go on HMF and look at the pics of the rose sent in by the people. If I can see the reproductive organs with ease , I normally get it , otherwise I leave them. I have been caught with roses so doubled that they lack all the important things. Also when I am on HMF you can also check out the health situation, as many specimens photographed are from all different climate zones through out the world , it gives you a very good indication of what you can expect.
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Jude The Obscure is beautifully healthy, but it isnt pure yellow. However, it has a unique scent and it is bred from 3 different yellow lines (Golden Wings, Souvenir de Claudius Pernet, and Yellow Cushion), so the potential for yellow exists. I got true mauve from it, lol.
Jubilee Celebration is awesomely healthy and compact for an Austin. I LOVE it, but its salmon and yellow combined. However, it is bred from a yellow Austin.
As for more pure golden tones of other shades of color, there are a few new ones, like Charles Darwin. Also, there is the healthy Crown Princess Margareta, but it is reported to be a pain to use in breeding.
Teasing Georgia may be a good option, but I do not know much about it. It may even be the best option. Who knows.
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I grow Crown Princess Margareta and Teasing Georgia. They are planted side-by-side in my garden. Both blackspot here in Rhode Island. CPM completely defoliates in August, and TG is by far the healthier of the two. TG sets many open-pollenated hips, but none of the seeds have germinated for me. I have not tried either as pollen donors (I’m trying to hybridize more-traditional roses).
Andy
Here in Middle GA last year’s AARS winner Sunshine Daydream has been very healthy. It does fade some, but on the other hand has rebloomed pretty impressively through our hot summer.
Stephen Hoy
Warner Robins, GA
Hi John, I would support Kim’s comments about “The Pilgrim”
In our humid climate, with plenty of rain and wet leaves overnight, The Pilgrim is our most disease resistant Austin.
Ours is supported against a verandah/porch, so is well tied and the long growths are under control. I would suspect that as a shrub, untied, it would be outa control!
But, bred with the right partner, I am sure the lanky growth could be eliminated.
All the best,
Duncan
Tauranga
New Zealand