Hello, new here and first post. I live in central NY, and our roses haven’t even started blooming yet, but I have nice buds coming along. I’ve been reading through many of the forums, and I have a friend who has been experimentally crossing his roses. I found this website in search of more info. The majority of my roses are DA’s, or cold hardy Canadian roses for my zone 5a/grow as a zone 4 for most roses. My friend was telling me to “try not to mix the ploidy (?) of roses”, but for the life of me, can’t find much info online about that, probably due to using improper search terms. Since they are modern roses, do DAs generally work well together? I have a Heritage next to an Abraham Darby for one example, and then a bunch of others… this will be my first time, so am just dipping my toes in! I also have a nice John Cabot, that throws beautiful hips in the fall- worth trying?
I really wouldn’t worry too much about ploidy just starting out unless the science behind it truly interests you. Roses are weird in that interploidy hybridization doesn’t necessarily result in sterility. It’s really less of a concern unless you’re working with species or old diploid roses, and even then those crosses still frequently defy traditional logic and hybridize to make fertile offspring. Most David Austin roses are tetraploid or triploid, and provided they are fertile they should cross with each other fine. I don’t grow David Austin roses but have seen that Abraham Darby makes for a good seed parent.
It’s all worth trying, if only for the trial and error. You’ll never know what sets hips or creates healthy seedlings in your climate until you start. The hands on experience of making crosses and germinating seeds, even just open-pollinated hips, will prove more valuable than anything else in your first year.
Yes, welcome! Try any cross you imagine. Try them reciprocally as one direction may not work, but it may in the other direction. Ralph Moore loved using his Little Chief as much as possible, but Little Chief was very particular about what pollens it would accept. Mr. Moore found its pollen seemed to work on everything. You never know until you try. You’re going to see things most of the rest of us may never think of. You’re going to imagine combinations to solve issues many of us will never encounter. So, if it grows well for you, use it. DEFINITELY plant all of those free, self set hip seeds so you can see which roses are good seed parents producing viable, easily germinated seeds. Use what Nature is throwing in your lap to learn how to germinate them. It’s extremely defeating to make your ideal imagined crosses only to discover you can’t germinate them. Don’t waste your crosses learning how to germinate them when you have all those lovely, FREE seeds “Ma Nature” is pushing in your direction. Besides, some really nice results have come from raising what she and “the bees” created. Let the fun begin!
I highly recommend going for it! The modern shrub types you mentioned are all tetraploid (for the most part), so don’t even give it a thought at this point.
I am also using Austins and Canadian shrubs, and have seedlings from a few different matchups (and much more)! Definitely get your feet wet with naturally formed hips, as mentioned. The hits are stunning and the misses are beyond counting, but you’ll get to see unique, never-seen roses, and find your favourites.
Morden Fireglow seems a willing parent in both directions, and that colour is worth playing around with, I’d say.
Thank you! Would the John Cabot probably be self pollinated or would roses, 7-8 feet away be a possibility too? I guess we should find out. I just figured even a self pollinated would look very similar to the original. Thanks for the encouragement!
Most roses’ stamen fold over the stigma as the bloom ages so its own pollen falls on the stigma to pollinate it should nothing else pollinate it first. Ralph Moore stated many times he never found evidence of wind or bee interference and every open pollinated a eed he ever planted appeared to be a self seedling. I had R.Stellata mirifica planted on the hill at our old home. R. Fedtschenkoana was the only rose planted near it. Mirifica set many hips yet no seed germinated until its last season when the plant set hips and died. I planted the seed and two germinated. They were obviously not pure Mirifica but strongly appeared to be crossed with Fedtschenkoana. The more successful is on Help Me Find-Roses as Puzzlement, should you care to look. So, are they selfs or hybrids? You won’t know until you germinate and grow them.
Ralph was an incredible hybridizer, but held a number of beliefs that don’t hold up under scrutiny. My own experience with OP seeds has shown that bees will carry pollen from one flower to another, with clear evidence of “other-parentage” as Stefan pointed out on my ‘Mutabilis’-seedling that obviously shows the fringed-stipules, transmitted by multiflora ancestry (most likely ‘Trier’).
Maybe it’s because all my plants are out in the open, rather than in a greenhouse.
Yes David Austin’s English Roses can be crossed with Canadian Roses. From my experience
they will often produce once blooming roses; so you will either be looking for the lower percentage of them that do get repeat bloom in that first cross, or you will be backcrossing them again for repeat. Often you will want to cross again to improve repeat anyway. Both are viable options.
Definitely, as was mentioned, do a cross both ways whenever it is possible. This may prove a challenge when using the Canadian Roses, but certainly look for the ones that can.
Also, look for the exceptions: Chinook Sunrise has had more success in juvenile bloom and repeat bloom than the others I have tested. As long as the fading color doesn’t bother you it may be worth pursuing.
Also, you can save time if you find plants that have already made this successful step and then breed with them. I am doing this myself a good bit with species hybrids that others have made.
Certainly worth crossing English Rose x English rose to get experience. This may give you more the style of rose you are looking for. I know Paul Barden had success using Abraham Darby (pollen I believe), and I have as well.
You can search on Helpmefind.com to find out which one’s have been successful parents, as this will save a lot of time. Or try searching here on this site for a specific rose to see if anyone has had any success breeding with one before splashing down cash, only to find out it doesn’t produce worthwhile plants. As English Roses go I would recommend Lilian Austin and Claire Austin as seed parents, as the numbers are low but can produce worthwile plants from those few. You will have to check in your vicinity regarding disease resistance (especilaly as blackspot varies much).
I have found both Olivia Rose Austin pollen as well as Lady of Shallot pollen to be very useful. No success at all as seed parent. Just be aware that sometimes you will not get juvenile bloom, perhaps a year or two for first bloom, but can still have repeat bloom (somewhat like a rugosa). I have found this especially true with Lady of Shallot pollen on multiple different seed parents.
I hope you have a lot of fun! Also that you get to grow a rose from your own labor: it is a really special moment.