Clare Grammerstorf

I saw today that Burlington Rose Nurseries is listed on HelpMeFind as a commercial source for Clare Grammerstorf. So now we have Clare Grammerstorf available commercially in the USA if you are interested in using it in your breeding program.

Peter

Taken from the comments in HMF

" I have grown this rose (or one named as such) for three years now. Hybridizers were looking for it, because Kordes used it in the past to create yellow roses. Because of the close relationship with R. eglanteria it was hoped it could give resistance to blackspot to its offspring. Unfortunately, this rose suffers from blackspot in my garden. There are many modern yellow roses with better resistance to blackspot than this rose."

Warren

I’d read that comment (it was posted in 2010). I’m sure many would like to see a list of the many modern yellow roses with better resistance to blackspot than Clare Grammerstorf’s. I definitely would like to see that list.

In some parts of the world blackspot is not a significant problem. Probably blackspot is not a great problem where you (Warren) live.

On the other hand, where I live in Charleston, West Virginia, leaf spot diseases of all descriptions are a serious problem: blackspot, cercospora, downy mildew, spot anthracnose, and probably some others. I’ve grown some of those “modern yellow roses” here, and they all get blackspot to about the same degree. Clare Grammerstorf gets some blackspot here (less than most), but it tolerates it, holds on to its leaves fairly well, and continues growing. The plant is not weakened as much as those that are defoliated by blackspot.

Those who have grown roses in different locations for a number of years know that the three most important factors in disease resistance are location, location, and location. I may have said that before on this forum, but the facts have not changed.

If people wish to use Clare Grammerstorf in their breeding programs, it is available (probably only a few plants this year), and they can decide for themselves whether its disease resistance or tolerance is acceptable where they live.

If any of our members know of any modern yellow roses that do not get blackspot and will always have healthy offspring, they would do all of us a big favor by posting the names of those roses. I do not know of any such roses, especially large-flowered and fragrant yellow roses.

Peter

LOL

Kordes Sunny Sky is easily building up in BS and spot deseases climates without any spray.
Their Winter Sun is stronger than most but the previous.

Cläre Grammerstorf figures into the pedigree of a great number of the better yellows we have today. It might seem like “reinventing the wheel” but there is probably merit in going back to her, and crossing her with “better” roses than were available as prospective mates in the 1960’s.

I don’t see Sunny Sky available in the states, but it does look pretty impressive. I wish I thought Chamblees would get it. Kordes gives it their highest score for BS-resistance It doesn’t appear that the color saturation and fragrance of either newer Kordes rose quite match that of CG.

I wonder how many of the big house breeders return to older cultivars, to cross with newer available hybrids.

A modern yellow I am liking a lot and using in breeding is Golden Fairy Tale (Sterntaler). It’s another Kordes creation with blooms that open medium yellow and stay medium yellow throughout. It has Clare Grammerstorf in it through Rugelda which is the pollen parent of GFT. Good fertility through the pollen and good enough fertility through hips - about 50-70% will set with an average of about 15-20 seeds inside. Jury is still out on the offspring as I have only grown out a few of them, but the few I have gotten are well above average in the health department. At least here in Iowa. If you get it, it does take about a year to give you good bloom periods and it will start to get tall if you don’t prune it annually. Oh and mine had huge thorns so might not be for those trying to avoid thorns. Still, I highly recommend trying this one.

Thanks Andre. I have Golden Fairy Tale on my list and after reading your endorsement will order it.

Rob

With enough to top BS resistence and good yellow intensity (probably more than Clare) are Gelber Engel (grows large for southerners) and Stuttgardia with nicer habit and larger flowers.

Clare is way back many Kordes roses intros but I see no trace of recent going back to older vars looking at them.

Unlike other breeders.

Interesting… On Helpmefind comments from Gelber Engel/Yellow angel:

Initial post 19 JUN 10 by RosariumRob
“According to Google-translated info on the website of the Chinese Plant Varieties Protection Information Network (http://www.cnpvp.com/show.asp?ClassCode=0016&n_id=860), the parentage of this rose is: Honeymoon (floribunda, Kordes, 1960) × Goldener Sommer 83. If true, it’s interesting to see that Kordes reaches back to an old hybrid with Clare Grammerstorf to obtain healthy yellow floribundas.”

Reply #1 of 1 posted 21 APR 11 by HMF supporting member Michael Garhart
“Kordes seems to have done the same thing w/ using Sutter’s Gold, Gold Glow, etc.”

Sunk!

I am not a pedigree believer but I trust more in Kordes. Honest enough to state they climbed on Noak shoulders.

The Kordeses has may be a century doing unusual crosses looking for resistence to frost and later to deseases.
Ahead of many breeders.
Using everything available.

I emailed Chamblees, and never heard back, but they have subsequently put both Sunny Skies and Winter Sun in their offerings… (Hmmm… I might email about other roses I would like to acquire! LOL)

Would love to hear of folks’ results breeding with these The saturation doesn’t appear to be the best on these, but the resistance is purportedly rather remarkable for yellow. Kordes gives them its highest rating for BS resistance:
http://www.kordes-rosen.com/gartenrose-sunny-sky-2l-topf

I ordered Clare Grammerstorf from Burling and am looking forward to working with it.

I Got Clare and have used it some years. It is Correct that both Black spot and leaf spot is common in some years, but could be as Peter mentioned different from place to place. still I regard it as a great rose, which is both a good seed and pollen parent. As Philip, I think a cross with one of the modern roses of today, it is posible to make another great rose from CG.
I have manage one great offspring, which is extreamly disease resistance. Barely any spots and keeps its leaflets when all other roses drops them.
As another plus, CG has a great fragrance, some spectacular curled leaflets. Both caracters are sometimes found in the next generation.
So I can only say buy and try before it is to late.
Regards
Bo
Denmark

Does anyone know the hardiness zone for Clare?

Rob

It managed at least -20 celcius here in Denmark Rob
Regards
Bo

Maybe someone from a really cold part of the world will speak up on this subject.

I know that Clare Grammerstorf has very woody stems, a trait which usually suggests cold hardiness. Lichtkonigin Lucia, one of its offspring, is listed for hardiness zone 4 in Poland ( http://www.rozarium.org/roze/r-a-lichtkonigin-lucia/ ) and I’d expect something similar for Clare Grammerstorf. At the least it should be hardy in USDA 5a. It used to be carried by Sam Kedem’s nursery in Minnesota (mostly zone 4). Maybe someone who grows Lichtkonigin Lucia in Minnesota could speak up.

Peter

Thanks Bo and Peter. I’m hoping that given the eglanteria blood that it would be hardy to zone 4. I’m in zone 6b so it will do fine here I was just curious about the hardiness as I plan the crosses I want to make with CG.

This is interesting, given the possibility of hardiness with yellow and fragrance. I just can’t have another “CG” in my cross mix, though. I’m already confusing myself labeling crosses with Cuthbert Grant and Commander Gillette. :slight_smile:

Simplify things for yourself, Joe. Everything available as Commander Gillette and Basye’s Legacy ARE the same rose. Dump the “CG” and just call it Legacy. Problem half solved.