I was researching the lineage of the late Bernardella’s Caliente - a reasonably recent introduction and noticed a recurring commonality: “very disease resistant.”
HMF notes that his most recent work was focusing on HTs. Does any one have any information on these?
If he turned increasingly to disease resistance, he may have already blazed trails for us.
Anyone?
Thanks,
Chris
I do not believe that is the case, especially for the Pac. NW.
Hi Jadae,
You do not believe “that” is the case? Do you mean that you do not believe Caliente is very disease resistant?
I was only commenting that per the HMF listings if I read them correctly, Caliente’s parents and grandparents are supposed to be VDR. Caliente is also listed as such.
It is for the type of miniature it is, which does not say a whole lot.
HMF wisely seems to use the “very disease resistant” descriptor very sparingly so my conclusion has been that it is meaningful when it appears in the description. I do hope that is the case.
OK. So it is very disease resistant for the type of minature it is.
If Bernardella’s HTs are very disease resistant for the type of HTs they are, then…
Does anyone know about his late work?
I grew ‘Caliente’ for two years before discarding it. It mildewed relentlessly in the greenhouse, and in the open air it defoliated quickly from blackspot. I don’t think it qualifies as “disease resistant” by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps it fares better elsewhere?
Hi Sandandsun,
I hope this post helps you in your search for disease resistant hybrid teas. I am greatly into breeding HT’s on the Pacific Northwest so I am very interested in breeding great disease resistance into my roses. I can share with you some of my successes and also, sadly, many failures at this venture…ha ha ha. Three roses you might consider using would be Solitaire, a rose bred by McGredy, a yellow hybrid tea with excellent disease resitance. It’s offspring, Paddy Stephens, an orange/pink bred out of Soliatire, also great disease resisance. And a rose I have been growing for one season but is showing great promise, Dick Clark, a Grandiflora with a low pedal count but with apparent very good to great disease resistance which was an open seedling of Fourth of July (a climber), both Dick Clark and Fourth of July are from Tom Carruth. I have about 50 seeds from these three roses from this last years crosses and like most of us here am greatly anticipating the perfect seedling…ha ha ha. In reply to your original question I know nothing about Frank Bernadellas attempts at disease resistance in HT’s. I hope this info helps you
Jack C.
Hi Chris,
While I love many of Frank Benardella’s minis and minifloras, especially for their color, form, vigor and floriferousness, in my experience, none of them rise to the status of “very disease resistant”. I loved ‘Caliente’ for it’s color, form, plant habit and floriferousness, but it only had moderate disease resistance “for a mini” in my experience.
HT’s as a group are very problematic. The new rose, ‘Sunshine Daydream’ looks very good, but it does get some powdery mildew in our climate. Star Roses has a very nice light pink HT from Meilland coming out in 2013 that looks even better. Pulling the genetics of the Knock Out roses into these would be something I would consider trying.
Jim Sproul
All rose ratings on HMF are offered by those posting to the site. HMF doesn’t grow roses, nor do they evaluate any posted performance information. That is up to us “users”.
They do attempt to research references posted to assure accuracy whenever possible. I’m surprised there aren’t more cases of completely conflicting disease ratings there. It would be very easy to occur. You rate the rose terrible and I rate it excellent. Unfortunately, it isn’t possible in the programming to display where the ratings originated so we could translate them to our particular climates. That would need to be in the Comments section to be useful.
For instance, 16 people rated Queen Elizabeth as ‘excellent’ for disease resistance, though in much of Southern California, it rusts very badly. There are probably also cases of roses which perform quite well in various climates, but only those for whom they have misbehaved have reported the offenses. Kim
In regard to disease resistance, it’s generally wise to remember the important principle called LOCATION. Beyond that, in relation to Frank’s roses I don’t remember any particular focus on disease resistance in minis or minifloras or HTs either. Some of them are more resistant than others–and some less. Frank did bring HT form into minis, and his frequent crosses back to HTs also produced mini-derived varieties with larger flowers–what has been given the class name of Miniflora.
“I’m surprised there aren’t more cases of completely conflicting disease ratings there. It would be very easy to occur. You rate the rose terrible and I rate it excellent.”
Exactly. Case in point: I have discarded 99% of all the historic (histrionic?) and relatively modern Hybrid Teas from my collection, but a handful remain; the few that can stand up to blackspot on their own. Which ones do I still have? You may be surprised. ‘Tiffany’ is one; it never blackspots in my garden. Yeah, I was as surprised as you undoubtedly are. Its clean, clean, clean. Same can be said for (brace yourself) ‘Savoy Hotel’. There are a couple of others but I can’t recall which at this moment.
Diseases: a regional issue. Likely an unsolvable problem, as far as hybridizing goes.
I’ve heard a lot of good things for some strong horizontal black spot resistance for the Kordes hybrid tea ‘Grand Amore’. What have others experience been with it? It seems hard to find now. A couple years ago I think I saw it in maybe the Wayside catalog.
‘Sunshine Daydream’ seems very promising from winning AARS under their no spray system.
I sent my Savoy Hotel to Jon Singer when he lived in Washington State because of downy mildew issues with it here. That was one he discovered scalding it with water from a hose connected to his water heater ‘cured’ downy. Kim
First response:
From lurking on the GardenWeb Rose forums for years and also actively searching its database; studying on my own including geology, I have concluded a number of things. In terms of location, I believe that we don’t live in two separate worlds but about 5. The first division is the Rockies west of which is the 1. PNW and 2. the rest of the West Coast. East of them, 3. northerlies 4. Southerlies and 5. thems in between. Each area seems to report its own issues which don’t normally seem to agree. I ignore the existence of microclimates because they exist everywhere.
Oddly, I feel lucky not to leave with them in between. Though a more temperate climate, they also have a more highly variable climate. And they seem to report the most problems (well seem to I said).
Disclaimer: PLEASE DO NOT DISAGREE since, please note that these are my own personal observations which I’m humbly sharing with you and not in any way asserting as a scientific hypothesis.
When I looked for disease resistant roses to grow, I only took recommendations from folks in a similar climate. Further, I only buy from growers in a similar climate.
In sum, I guess I heartily agree and obviously have taken it to heart. hearty har har
And the best part is that when I’ve stuck to the VDR selection principle, my biggest problems are enough water and noticing the aphids before they’ve done too much damage.
Chris
Kim,
You have shattered the last remnant of my faith in the temple of HMF. Guess I knew it subconciously all along - if it’s too good to be true, then it’s just a well packaged technicolor pipe dream.
Henceforth no matter how highly the site is praised,etc. I will preserve the low opinion of it which it rightly deserves. Thank you very much. LOL
And when I’m ranting, I’ll say Kim said nothing on there could be trusted! LOL!!
Point taken though, Kim. Thanks
Regarding HMF: Its not a matter of being “too good to be true”, leading to a statement like “I will preserve the low opinion of it which it rightly deserves” (!!!), the latter sounding very much like a case of the baby and the bathwater. HMF is an exceptionally useful resource. It is more versatile than the ARS’s MR books, because it is flexible and ever-changing. It is honest because at least half of the data is “real world” data generated by and contributed by the membership. If anything, that is more meaningful than traditional books, because a book written by a lone author is just that: a single data point; one person’s experience.
HMF is a conglomerate, a community with hundreds of contributing authors. To suggest that “nothing on there could be trusted” is, frankly, offensive to me. I regard HMF as the resource to go to for research purposes. There is no other resource, in print or on the web, that comes close to offering the rich information HMF offers. If you feel that the inclusion of many personal experiences/ratings that give the appearance of presenting conflicting information, then you haven’t factored in regional climate differences.
On that note, I sincerely hope you were just joking, Chris. If so, then disregard the above comments.
Hi Jim,
Well, I did acquire Caliente this Fall so I cannot report from here at this time as all my recent acquisitions are in acclimation mode. I’m in Florida and there are reputable reports that minis in general do well here. Given regional differences, it may prove bulletproof for me. That would be very nice.
I think one should have a goal as a hybridizer - even if one’s work varies greatly from it. And I think I’d like to try for VDR heat tolerant performers for the South as in THE SOUTH, east of them there Rockies.
I think I have 2 HTs I’m trying. One is a known wimp. So, I guess I’ve only got hope for the other - no, honestly no hope for it either.
About those Knockouts: I think it likely that a sufficient number of folks are going that route. I’ll leave that to them.
I’m currently more interested in Lim’s work. No, I have not yet acquired even one.
I’ll make a list and add your HT possibilities to it.
Thank you.
Chris
Paul,
Yep, laughing out loud (lol)
and Laughing Out Loud (LOL)
Maybe I should have used rolling on the floor laughing my @xx off which I very nearly was. I did laugh so hard after I reread it that I was developing pains.
Sorry you don’t recognize my humor Paul. Hopefully in future you will.
Chris
I think sometimes the disease rating come from people who use preventative spraying.
A lot of times on help me find you can find good info in the comment section.